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Then you get Hiberno-English where "ough" _can_ sound like "ock" (Ballybough road in Dublin) and "Niamh" is "Neeve" and Siobhan is "Shu-vawn"

another-dave 3y ago
In fairness though, Niamh and Siobhán are names from another language! You do get dialectical differences in Irish and there's some spelling reform stuff, but at least for the most part there's some internal consistency (to the dialect) in how stuff should be pronounced.
- CalRobert 3y ago
  True, after a while living in Ireland it came without too much trouble. (consonant followed by "h" is close to "v", the "ough" thing, "oise" being like "osh", etc.) But I still made a fool of myself trying to say Portlaoise and Dun Laoghaire a few times. In conversation with my neighbour Eoghan no less. By the time we had a daughter the name Maeve was in serious contention and I admit I was pretty enthusiastic about going with "Méibh" or even "Medb" but we ended up going with something else.
barrkel 3y ago
That is less Hiberno-English and more Gaelic. Niamh and Siobhán are Irish names following Irish orthography.
- saalweachter 3y ago
  I always felt like Gaelic spelling was the result of someone hearing about the written language, thinking it was a fantastic idea, and then rushing off to write down all the words without waiting to get all the details about how writing was supposed to work.
  - CalRobert 3y ago
    Worth noting that "Gaelic" is a group of languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goidelic_languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goidelic_languages One of those languages is Irish. It used to be written in its own type - which I personally find beautiful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_type https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_type
- Supernaut 3y ago
  You should have left out the first sentence! Someone once sent me a link to a tooth-grindingly annoying performance by an English "comedian", where he expressed irritation and disbelief at what he saw as a preposterous disconnect between the spelling of indigenous Irish names and the way they are pronounced. As if the Irish language was really merely a dialect of English, and we're all just being awkward over here. Someone who knows English but not Irish will have no idea how to pronounce "Niamh", because it's not a word from the English language. As you say, it's an Irish name that follows Irish orthography.

another-dave 3y ago

In fairness though, Niamh and Siobhán are names from another language! You do get dialectical differences in Irish and there's some spelling reform stuff, but at least for the most part there's some internal consistency (to the dialect) in how stuff should be pronounced.

CalRobert 3y ago
True, after a while living in Ireland it came without too much trouble. (consonant followed by "h" is close to "v", the "ough" thing, "oise" being like "osh", etc.) But I still made a fool of myself trying to say Portlaoise and Dun Laoghaire a few times. In conversation with my neighbour Eoghan no less. By the time we had a daughter the name Maeve was in serious contention and I admit I was pretty enthusiastic about going with "Méibh" or even "Medb" but we ended up going with something else.

barrkel 3y ago

That is less Hiberno-English and more Gaelic. Niamh and Siobhán are Irish names following Irish orthography.

saalweachter 3y ago
I always felt like Gaelic spelling was the result of someone hearing about the written language, thinking it was a fantastic idea, and then rushing off to write down all the words without waiting to get all the details about how writing was supposed to work.
- CalRobert 3y ago
  Worth noting that "Gaelic" is a group of languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goidelic_languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goidelic_languages One of those languages is Irish. It used to be written in its own type - which I personally find beautiful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_type https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_type
Supernaut 3y ago
You should have left out the first sentence! Someone once sent me a link to a tooth-grindingly annoying performance by an English "comedian", where he expressed irritation and disbelief at what he saw as a preposterous disconnect between the spelling of indigenous Irish names and the way they are pronounced. As if the Irish language was really merely a dialect of English, and we're all just being awkward over here. Someone who knows English but not Irish will have no idea how to pronounce "Niamh", because it's not a word from the English language. As you say, it's an Irish name that follows Irish orthography.