3 ms·

Hoe much are they even paying ARM? > It's not like you can argue that they can't pull off a RISC transition Apple could also possibly send a spaceship to the

Hoe much are they even paying ARM? > It's not like you can argue that they can't pull off a RISC transition Apple could also possibly send a spaceship to the moon if they really wanted to. Not sure there are any practical reasons to do that. They’ve been working on ARM chips for almost a decade to get to where they are now. Throwing that away for some ill defined advantages seems not that rational.

bitwize 3y ago
> Hoe much are they even paying ARM? I think Apple has a perpetual license to ARM tech because they put up a bunch of investment money after ARM spun off from Acorn.
- ksec 3y ago
  The perpetual license to ARM ISA has nothing to do with Apple's investment into ARM or Acorn. Anyone with money could buy a perpetual license to its ISA under the condition ARM and buyer agree with.
smoldesu 3y ago
A RISC transition and a moon landing are markedly different things, though. They've already migrated MacOS to a RISC architecture, whereas nothing Apple makes is really intended to go into space. Unlike building a rocket ship, we already know Apple can do this. None of us really know the specifics of Apple's deal, though. It's a perpetual license and they are in-bed with the firm that majority-owns ARM. It seems like a good deal, but obviously it's not good enough; Apple doesn't use any ARM-provided core designs and even adds their own ISA extensions when-needed. They themselves are using ARM like it is RISC-V, and they're a big enough stakeholder that they can get away with it. > They’ve been working on ARM chips for almost a decade https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/09/03/apple-investigating-risc-v-processor-architecture-job-listing-shows https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/09/03/apple-investigati... They've been exploring RISC-V internally for a couple years now, too. I think it is either extremely foolish or ignorant to think that RISC-V won't undermine most ARM-licensed devices. The vast majority of places where ARM is used (even in Apple devices) is small and cheap microcontrollers that mostly cost whatever their license demands. If Apple could switch their internal ICs to RISC-V, they would already be saving a lot of money without transitioning to RISC-V fully.
- ffhhttt 3y ago
  > They've already migrated MacOS to a RISC architecture, Have they? I certainly think you have a point about microcontrollers. I find it very doubtful RISC-v would supplant ARM on the high end anytime soon. The licensing fees are pretty peanuts compared to the cost of designing your own cores and even the big players have been struggling to come up with anything that could compete against ARMs designs (besides Apple of course). Also it’s not at all clearer what incentives would Apple have to switch to RISC-V? Sure they could do it.. what would they gain though?

bitwize 3y ago

> Hoe much are they even paying ARM? I think Apple has a perpetual license to ARM tech because they put up a bunch of investment money after ARM spun off from Acorn.

ksec 3y ago
The perpetual license to ARM ISA has nothing to do with Apple's investment into ARM or Acorn. Anyone with money could buy a perpetual license to its ISA under the condition ARM and buyer agree with.

smoldesu 3y ago

A RISC transition and a moon landing are markedly different things, though. They've already migrated MacOS to a RISC architecture, whereas nothing Apple makes is really intended to go into space. Unlike building a rocket ship, we already know Apple can do this. None of us really know the specifics of Apple's deal, though. It's a perpetual license and they are in-bed with the firm that majority-owns ARM. It seems like a good deal, but obviously it's not good enough; Apple doesn't use any ARM-provided core designs and even adds their own ISA extensions when-needed. They themselves are using ARM like it is RISC-V, and they're a big enough stakeholder that they can get away with it. > They’ve been working on ARM chips for almost a decade https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/09/03/apple-investigating-risc-v-processor-architecture-job-listing-shows https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/09/03/apple-investigati... They've been exploring RISC-V internally for a couple years now, too. I think it is either extremely foolish or ignorant to think that RISC-V won't undermine most ARM-licensed devices. The vast majority of places where ARM is used (even in Apple devices) is small and cheap microcontrollers that mostly cost whatever their license demands. If Apple could switch their internal ICs to RISC-V, they would already be saving a lot of money without transitioning to RISC-V fully.

ffhhttt 3y ago
> They've already migrated MacOS to a RISC architecture, Have they? I certainly think you have a point about microcontrollers. I find it very doubtful RISC-v would supplant ARM on the high end anytime soon. The licensing fees are pretty peanuts compared to the cost of designing your own cores and even the big players have been struggling to come up with anything that could compete against ARMs designs (besides Apple of course). Also it’s not at all clearer what incentives would Apple have to switch to RISC-V? Sure they could do it.. what would they gain though?