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One of the best things I ever did was get strong through a basic barbell training program called Starting Strength. Squat, deadlift, overhead press, bench pres

One of the best things I ever did was get strong through a basic barbell training program called Starting Strength. Squat, deadlift, overhead press, bench press, chinups, eat, sleep. It really is that easy. Highly recommend it for anyone interested. 1. Any back pain I had disappeared completely. 2. When I have to lift something awkward (eg, furniture), I don't injure myself. If you can deadlift 200KG, awkwardly leaning over your lawn mower to grab a 20KG bag of concrete is pretty easy. 3. It is really really handy being able to move heavy things. 4. Basically everything else improves. Going for a tough hike uphill? Your legs will be a lot less sore if you can squat 150KG. Need to hold your screaming baby for 40 minutes? Easy!

5d41402abc4b 3y ago
My knee pain gets worse when i squat. How old are you?
- hollerith 3y ago
  I'm 63 and have to stay completely away from cheese or the arthritis in my left knee gets so bad I cannot operate the clutch in an manual-transmission car without doing what feels like permanent damage to the knee. I used Starting Strength to learn how to squat roughly 12 years ago, do squats regularly and have never injured myself even temporarily doing squats although I use much less weight than grandparent does.
- lookboil 3y ago
  What sort of range of motion are you using? Obviously consulting a physio/exercise physiologist may be helpful, but you may have less pain if you squat to just below parallel. Or other squat variants may be better for you, e.g. front squats (or zombie squats), box squats. Slant board squats are also very good. You could also look at pin squats as it deloads the weight from your body at a very precise depth so no risk of going too deep with the weight and causing pain Check out "knees over toes guy", he has a wealth of good free information on knee recovery. I'm 30 and I squat pain free twice per week despite 3 knee dislocations. Good luck friend
- tastysandwich 3y ago
  How are you squatting? Technique is really important. I recommend watching some videos by Mark Rippetoe [1], and also filming your squats to review them. The low-bar back squat is a hip-dominant exercise, and when done properly should not put undue stress on the knees. [2] I myself had _terrible_ knee pain from squatting. Then my knee started randomly buckling when I would walk. So I started filming myself. I also used TUBOW [3] to figure out that my knees were drifting far too forward. I corrected my technique accordingly, and started engaging the hips properly. My knee pain went away and I've been pain-free ever since. - [1] Learn to Squat, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhoikoUEI8U - [2] Squats and Your Knees, https://startingstrength.com/article/squats-and-your-knees - [3] Using the TUBOW with Mark Rippetoe, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P_w6dpDC2I
- cosmojg 3y ago
  My knee pain improves when I squat. For context, my legs are different lengths, and I've had a left medial meniscectomy in the shorter leg. I'm in my late twenties, and the pain is bilateral.
- devoutsalsa 3y ago
  This is why god invented physical therapists! Had minor knee pain a couple years ago, saw doctor for X-rays just as sanity check, and he referred me to a physical therapist. Got a knee strengthening routine, followed it, and all was good after a month or two.
- elric 3y ago
  There might be several reasons for this, poor technique and insufficient time for adaptation are probably the most common ones. Though previous injury is certainly another possibility. In general, squats are good for your knees, and will protect your knees from injury. Not only will they strengthen the structures of and around the knees, they will also (literally) lubricate the joints. It takes time to develop a good squat. Many people seem to be limited by their range of motion, especially in the ankles, at least to start off with.
- cheald 3y ago
  I'm 40, I've had two knee surgeries, and have genetically terrible knees. Squatting incorrectly made them hurt, but I went to see a sports PT and he taught me how to squat correctly (I was overloading my quads and not using my posterior chain like...at all - a proper low-bar squat with the glutes engaged was a total gamechanger), and not only did it fix my knee pain in squats, it fixed my knee pain in general. I went from being functionally crippled in my 20s to competing as an amateur powerlifter and training Brazilian jiujitsu in my late 30s, and I absolutely attribute the foundation of that to squatting and deadlifting. In my personal experience, as a now more seasoned lifter, most people have knee pain in squats because they load the quads and arrest the squat early with the quads rather than hitting full depth. Once your hip crease is below the top of your kneecap, your quads are no longer bearing the load! If you're stopping the lift prior to that, then you're applying a ton of torque to the knee directly with the quad, rather than letting the much more robust posterior chain absorb the energy of the descent. If you haven't tried squatting low-bar, you might give it a go - it makes it much easier to move with the posterior chain. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs_Ej32IYgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs_Ej32IYgo is my single favorite squat video on the internet. Lots of really good info in it. But, if you don't see improvement, I highly recommend seeing someone who can diagnose and correct how you move.
- Yodel0914 3y ago
  I'm in my early 40s and have been squatting for ~20yrs. I've just started to notice a bit of a twinge in my knees when squatting, particularly if I'm getting close to my 1RM. Knee straps seem to alleviate it, though I'm not particularly keen on using them. I think I likely need to work a bit more on stability and flexibility, both of which are diminishing faster than raw strength.
- silisili 3y ago
  Same. Can't even squat my own body weight without my knees wanting to explode. I do think weight training is important, but with physical limitations...
  - bratbag 3y ago
    I had the same. In my late 30's even kneeling hurt. That goes away once the muscles gain strength. I've had a personal trainer for years now and in my early 40s I can squat merrily with no pain. Also my neck and back pain have vanished, along with headaches I used to get that would start around the back of my neck and move over my head. Strength training really is amazing. My only regret is 20 years as an adult not doing it. My wife taking every excuse to touch my leg muscles is just an added bonus!
    - silisili 3y ago
      How did you strengthen them in that scenario? We may be a little different as I've had surgery in both knees(ACL and MCL). I'm interested in doing leg work, but physically can't squat...at least yet.
      - bratbag 3y ago
        I started off with a light slam ball provided by my trainer. No squats in sight for the first few months! Over the shoulder throws and ball slams were my leg exercises for a long time. Edit: the main thing was having a good pt who was aware of my injuries. They could tell me when to stop and when to push.
      - cheald 3y ago
        I started by holding onto a stair bannister and squatting slooowly until I could actually get the full range of motion, then unsupported air squats, then I moved to an empty barbell. If you can't go straight to a barbell, or you have back/spine issues, belt squats are a great way to increase your workload as your capacity increases. With those surgeries, starting under the supervision of a PT is a great idea, though. They'll know how to build you up safely.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- rebuilder 3y ago
  Knee pain can be from a variety of causes, some of which have to do with the actual joint and some of which don't. For example, medial knee pain can be, to name two options, an MCL tear or just an inflammation of the bursal sac. I had the latter when getting back into exercise after a long break (I'm now 40), and was really worried I had busted my knees. In the end, switching to front squats for a bit and working on mobility as well as paying attention to posture when lifting helped with it. Point being, if you don't know what's causing your knee pain, it's probably a good idea to figure it out first, then think about what could help.
ehnto 3y ago
As someone who was not born 100% able, I have been lifting for 10+ years and I attribute my ongoing robustness to it. I wouldn't be doing half the stuff I do without strength conditioning providing such a robust foundation. Injury defence is a benefit of lifting that is undersold I think. By strengthening all the muscles that support your movement, and limbering up connective tissues you are much less likely to get injured in general life like you said.
satvikpendem 3y ago
Starting Strength is not recommended anymore: https://web.archive.org/web/20200528135350/https://thefitness.wiki/faq/starting-strength-and-stronglifts-not-recommended/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200528135350/https://thefitnes...
- cheald 3y ago
  Starting Strength is fine for a beginner. It's not an optimal program, but it's simple, easy to understand, and built on good foundational principles. As an on-ramp into resistance training, it's better than a complex program that'll scare beginners off or burn them out.
  - satvikpendem 3y ago
    This is directly addressed on that page too: https://web.archive.org/web/20200528135350/https://thefitness.wiki/faq/starting-strength-and-stronglifts-not-recommended/#But_SS_and_SL_are_only_meant_to_be_short_term_programs_for_a_few_months,_so_this_isn%E2%80%99t_a_big_deal https://web.archive.org/web/20200528135350/https://thefitnes... As well as in the section above it.
    - cheald 3y ago
      It still doesn't change the fact that a suboptimal program which keeps beginners engaged and moving forward is infinitely superior to a more complex one that they fall off of.
      - satvikpendem 3y ago
        It does actually. The program is so poor that beginners might not even see enough progress that they're put off from working out, because "what's the point if I've been at it for a month or three and still don't have any gains?" That's why it's better to actually pick a good program, one that shows consistent gains as motivation rather than plateauing as a demotivational force. Other recommended programs like 5/3/1 are not "more complex," that's a false dichotomy. They're just as simple but with different sets of exercises.
iamphilrae 3y ago
I 100% agree. You mention some pretty scary KG numbers there though (but we’ll done)! I just wanted to mention to readers that even squatting a ‘measly’ 50KG or deadlifting 30KG can immensely help with back pain and the physical challenges everyday life throws at you.
- nwiswell 3y ago
  > You mention some pretty scary KG numbers there > I just wanted to mention to readers that even squatting a ‘measly’ 50KG or deadlifting 30KG Yes -- this is really important to contextualize. Barbell resistance training is actually two things: 1) A method of exercise that has a variety of well-quantified health benefits including improvements in strength, bone density, and connective tissue. More muscle also means you can eat more without getting fat. 2) A competitive strength sport (generally called powerlifting; weightlifting usually refers to the explosive overhead lifts seen at the Olympics). Your strength goals can, and should, depend entirely on your objectives. If you're aiming to compete, a 150KG squat and 200KG deadlift would put you around the median in the lowest male weight classes. If you just want to get in shape, it's overkill.
  - mise_en_place 3y ago
    It's also relative to your body weight. A 150 kg squat for someone who weighs 118 kg (i.e. me) is not that impressive. Whereas an 80 kg squat if you weigh 80 kg is extremely impressive. You should be aiming to lift 1x-1.5x your body weight, over time.
    - dmurray 3y ago
      I don't get it, 1x bodyweight is impressive for a smaller person?
      - omnimus 3y ago
        Yeah i thought if you look at the top performers it actually gets harder if you are heavy to keep with lighter performers in terms of multiplier. The lighter performers win the multiplier game. But maybe its different if you look at amateurs.
quickthrower2 3y ago
I am doing weight training for fatigue. The idea is 55%, 65%, 75%, 85% weeks. The % is perceived effort. That might be bench pressing just the bar sometimes. And I go twice a week, and do about 7 different exercises. It is not "perfect" but it is f'ing consistent. Knowing there is a 55% week coming up, and it is OK and that it is perceived effort so you can lower weights if you feel shit, makes this very stick-to-able.
zmmmmm 3y ago
A similar vein but muuuuch simpler for anybody who isn't up for weights. Each day, before anything else: 1. 3 mins stretching 2. 20 (real) situps (3 mins) 3. 10 pushups (2 mins) I actually usually do a good bit more exercise more than this, but this is my minimum day starting routine, no matter where I am, or what I'm doing. It takes less than 10 minutes and keeps a bare minimum of strength in your lower back and arms. The lower back part is key for people who work in chairs all day. You can do a lot of types of exercise and still not maintain those lower back muscles which are so key to ensure your lumbar is protected.
- Gud 3y ago
  A small amount of exercise each day will do wonders for your overall fitness, especially when starting out. You don’t need to hit the gym for an hour to feel the results. Like parent poster is doing, body weight exercises are terrific. I would also like to say that planks are an extremely effective exercise.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- lloeki 3y ago
  Got 5min? Try this, it's much more complete*, engaging the back a lot. Title is a catchy "burn belly fat" but it's more like core training + cardio. It looks scary but anyone (without a precluding condition) can do it. It's only HIIT if you make it so, the key is to pace yourself according to your level, going slow if needed so as to complete each of the 30s. If you can't do the full range, do a partial range, but do that range with proper form so as not to hurt yourself, don't force through it, it'll get better over time. Aim for consistency, not short term record. Side note: lubricate joints before (do rotations and flexing), stretch after exercise: stretching before increases risk of injury. If you really want to stretch before, do dynamic stretching, not static. * doing only sit-ups and push-ups strengthens frontside massively, so front-back is not balanced, further increasing the forward arching position (starting with nerd neck) induced by long term sitting. Front training is important for all-day sitters as these muscles (which should be engaged all along the day but are not) atrophy, but overtraining front (vs back) amplifies the issue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlantbhXp4Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlantbhXp4Y
raverbashing 3y ago
SS is just one of many "starter programs", though I don't get why people like the dogmatic approach, or putting labels onto things > awkwardly leaning over your lawn mower to grab a 20KG bag of concrete is pretty easy. True. Still, don't do it (or, I mean, do it the proper way)
throwaway4good 3y ago
I think that is missing the point a bit; regardless of how healthy a lifestyle you live you still will end up suffering from some kind of disability. Perhaps of a cause completely outside your control (stroke, heart problem, accident). Not to say that strength training isn't good for you of course. But it may not actually prepare you for things to come (unlike having a healthy family life, an identity outside work and physical fitness).
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  You do reduce the probability of an issue though. And increase the chance you can help others.
- maccard 3y ago
  Its not a binary thing. On my dad's side, there is a history of hip issues, sciatica, upper back and shoulder mobility issues. One of his siblings is in his early 60's, retired, and can only be described as "active". He's not powerlifting or anything like that but gym, cycling, gardening, every day or other day. He's on his second hip, soon to be third. His other sibling is late 50's, also on their second hip about to get their third. They're limited to 2-300 yards of walking, can't really stand unaided for long periods of time, struggle with their sleep, etc etc. The easiest comparison is that the older one is, and always has been more active. Sure it's complicated, sure you can't prepare for an unexpected diagnosis, but I'd you're 60 with no active health scares, your quality of life is going to be dictated by how much you looked after yourself, not just luck.
- nextlevelwizard 3y ago
  >I think that is missing the point a bit same right back at you. just because at some point you might (or I guess you and the author are arguing will) get injured doesn't mean strengthening yourself is invalid. in fact healthier and in better shape you are the less likely you are to suffer debilitating injury. tweaking my strong knee that is used to squatting heavy weights and otherwise supporting active lifting is way different than my father tweaking he's knee with artificial joint. at least for me the problem is lettings things get worse. I should learn to seek help/corrective action right away, but I always just want to "see if I can ride it out" which can then turn into months of unnecessary suffering with long lasting issues. pre-emptively starting resistance training is very beneficial for most people.
vekker 3y ago
I really enjoyed the Starting Strength program (I was going to abbreviate it at first, but then realized that sounds a bit sketchy out of context), and I noticed the benefits too. The only reason I quit a few years ago is because of my concerns about the strain it puts on the cardiovascular system. Especially for someone already doing mostly desk work, I wonder how healthy it really is. I still do resistance training, but with higher reps and less weight. Not incrementally increasing the weight as SS prescribes.
- angrais 3y ago
  Why do you have this concern? Did you notice any changes in breathing or such?
  - vekker 3y ago
    A family history of high blood pressure and pretty much any doctor I've spoken to advising against strength training with heavy weights.
koonsolo 3y ago
Alternatively you could do bodyweigth training if you prefer that (like me) 1. Pull: such as pullup 2. Push: towards one arm one leg pushup 3. Legs: Pistol up (=1 leg squat) 4. Core: V-ups and bridge works for me. Once we went carting with the company. Everybody was sore afterwards in all kinds of places (software devs :)). I was fine.
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  1,2,3 are intermediate level though. After a year I cam do 6 reps of 1, 0 reps of 2, probably 15 of 3 and 90s bridge. But a sedate person might enjoy a gym better or TRX maybe to assist as these are hard for average Joe.
- fdgjgbdfhgb 3y ago
  If you are a beginner and want to start with calisthenics, I recommend the Hybrid Routine[1]. It has really nice progressions for all exercised mentioned above (and it's free!) [1] https://www.hybridcalisthenics.com/routine https://www.hybridcalisthenics.com/routine
philjohn 3y ago
Keeping strength up, especially in old age, is crucial. My father was admitted to hospital for something, and spent a few weeks on the ward. When he was released he was super frail and had to use a walker. Losing strength is easy, getting it back (especially in your 80's) is damn hard.
ekidd 3y ago
I powerlifed for years, with a truly excellent coach for much of that time. For what it was worth, she was Starting Strength certified and a successful international masters competitor. She fixed a subtle problem with my deadlift using nothing but the wrinkles on my T-shirt; my recovery improved dramatically. At 40, I was stronger than I was as a high school wrestler. I loved lifting. I remember casually picking up a piece of equipment that took two burly guys to lift and jumping down from a pickup with it. But over the course of several years, I picked up several small but persistent injuries lifting. Two can be worked around. One makes it very hard to squat for more than a few weeks of training. None of the injuries, fortunately, affects me noticeably in daily life. But I'll never wide-grip bench press again, either. When I was coming to terms with these injuries, I had a long talk with the oldest natty lifters in my gym. The powerlifers were all dealing with various chronic injuries. (Seriously, Rippetoe has published a bit of his medical history. He's a mess of injuries.) But you know who was still lifting in their 60s and even 70s, injury-free for decades at a stretch? The natty bodybuilders. One of the oldest looked over at me one day, and said, "You know, I don't like the risk/reward on heavy squats. You do them flawlessly for years, and then one day, a group of muscle fibers decides to misfire for a moment when you're under the bar." So, enjoy Starting Strength, or whatever other beginner program Reddit likes this year. And the two Starting Strength certified coaches I've known were excellent. Good technique is absolutely worth it. But once you've gotten those sweet beginner gains, talk to the old lifters, and think long and hard about where you want to go next. Because nothing is as important as remaining injury-free. And every older powerlifter I met was dealing with chronic injuries. Once gains get difficult, think about what you really want out of lifting.
- pulpfictional 3y ago
  What's the plan to stay injury-free? I don't know any bodybuilders.
  - oarfish 3y ago
    Don't exceed your recovery resources. Anecdotal reports are not helpful when determining injury risk. Overall injury incidence in strength sports is very low. But if you do it to compete, maybe there is an argument to be made that pushing the limits increases it. Overall though, the much greater risk is to not train. Whether you do barbell movements or machines is not a determinant of of health outcomes, as far as we know. I would not put stock in anecdote without some numbers on injuries among non-competing powerlifters.
wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
For normal people, please lift, it's amazing, but just don't go too heavy, especially with squats & dead lifts. The risk is too high. Get to squat 150kg is highly likely to cause back injuries for a vast majority of the people. Whereas lifting 50% of max reps with higher reps will get you similar benefits, in most cases even more muscle growth, without the high risk of injuries.
stavros 3y ago
On the flip side, I did SS in my twenties (15 years ago) and, while doing a deadlift, my back popped and started hurting. I've had back pain since. I wouldn't recommend deadlifts. The worst part about it is that everyone always says "you didn't have proper form!" but, in that case, if you can follow all the advice in the program and still have bad form, it just sounds like a way to dismiss injuries as "your fault, not the program's".
layer8 3y ago
This becomes much more difficult once you already have injuries though.
chadcmulligan 3y ago
Core strength is great, pilates does the same with less effort though.
WA 3y ago
Yeah, about that: I started with a solid bodyweight fitness regime and after 10 good workouts over 4 weeks, two of my finger hurt to the point of feeling like they're damaged and the palm of my hand feels overtrained and constantly tense or something. Gives me pain with every pushup. So, "it's really that easy" actually causes pain that I also feel when I hold a cup of tea. I'm not saying that one shouldn't start lifting weights, but no matter what you do, you can be (temporarily) disabled for any reason, which is precisely what the article is about.
- coffeebeqn 3y ago
  I always get wrist pain from push ups also so I had to stop doing them
11235813213455 3y ago
This looks good for power, less for endurance (like hike/bike uphill), for a computer job we also need endurance, not big muscles, so I walk, sometimes run, climb trees and rocks, (forage figs), squat for hours (static), and surely no added weight. In short I think selling your car, and using your legs daily as much as possible is what's best
bradley13 3y ago
Absolutely right, although I cannot lift the amounts you list. For me, weight lifting has nothing to do with "power lifting".. I have a weight-machine and a few barbells in my house, and use them 2-3 times a week, sometimes more, sometimes less. I am older, I have no six-pack, I am not particularly muscular. It's not about that. It's about keeping what you have, and keeping what you have reasonably fit. Muscles support your joints. Weight training also strengthens the ligaments and tendons that hold everything together. If you do it as "circuit training" (only a few seconds between different exercises), it also serves as cardiovascular exercise. All of this is important for everyone, especially as you get older...
endisneigh 3y ago
Though I agree with your point, I would advise against this. Instead I would advise someone to master body weight exercises. Pull ups, push ups, hand stands, etc. Master motor control, balance and ability to control your own weight. The problem with lifting is no matter how good your form is, injuries are inevitable and made worse due to the extra resistance.
- mlrtime 3y ago
  Giving advice to people starting out to try and master hand stands is not a good idea. Other body weight exercises like push-ups are a great supplement though. If there are no weights involved, I'd recommend people just do yoga instead, but leave hand stands out for a long time.
  - endisneigh 3y ago
    Why? They’re not that difficult, especially if someone is there to assistance or you have a wall. It’s also a yoga position. Now obviously I wouldn’t start out with hand stands since you need to be in pretty good shape (like a pull up you probably can’t do it unless you’re in decent shape anyways). It’s certainly safer than having literally hundreds of pounds above your neck.
    - mlrtime 3y ago
      Because it has become a new fad and people jump into it without understanding the risks, which lead to injury. I spent a very long time training for hand stands (pressing up) , it is an advanced skill. In Ashtanga yoga it is considered an advanced level which some yogis may never achieve.
jabroni_salad 3y ago
My dad did a lot of bodybuilding, and martial arts, and swam miles a week too. Just loved physical activity. Last year he slipped a disk putting gas in his car. Backs are really arbitrary and you can do a lot to finesse the dice, but you're still gonna roll snake eyes on something.
cyrialize 3y ago
I'm personally a fan of the Greyskull Linear Progression or GSLP. I'm pretty much a fan of any LP since if you stick with it you get a ton of strength gains. It's essentially: Day A: - Squat 2x5, 1x5 AMRAP - OHP / Bench (Alternate) 2x5, 1x5 AMRAP Day B: - Deadlift, 1x5 AMRAP - OHP / Bench (Alternate) 2x5, 1x5 AMRAP So you are only squatting twice a week and deadlifting once a week, versus SS with squats everyday. A typically schedule following M-W-F for two weeks could look like the following: M: Squat & Bench W: Deadlift & OHP F: Squat & Bench M: Squat & OHP W: Deadlift & Bench F: Squat & OHP I highly recommend purchasing 1.25 plates so that you can increase weights by 2.5 pounds versus 5. I did this for bench and OHP and that was when I really started seeing gains! AMRAP stands for as many reps as possible and works as a good metric for moving up a weight or staying at a weight. If you do 5 at the end, you may want to stay. If you do 10 or more, you can double the weight increase. The other cool part of AMRAP is that you now have another metric besides weight - you can try to break previous rep records, especially if you deload and are working your way back up to previous working weights. At the end of the day, sticking with any LP would be good. I just like GSLP since I'm not squatting every day. All that being said, I started off with SS and that was what got me to a 315 pound squat. Doing GSLP is what got me to 220.5 bench and a 135 OHP (all for reps)! I think the tiny incremental plate (1.25 plates) and AMRAP sets are what helped me the most.
kerkeslager 3y ago
As usual, Hacker News presents the anti-human take in the top few most upvoted comments. Although this is an unusually subtle one. I say this as a guy who still works a Starting-Strength-based program. Power lifting is great--it changed my life. But it's NOT a solution to disability and it's NOT a foolproof prevention. The implication that "if people just got off their asses and did some exercise they wouldn't be disabled!" is disgusting.
- nwiswell 3y ago
  This is an extremely cynical take. (As usual, Hacker News!) > The implication that "if people just got off their asses and did some exercise they wouldn't be disabled!" is disgusting. I don't know how you got that implication. It seems like you agree that lifting is great. Many people don't do resistance exercise. The article itself is about the process of aging, and resistance exercise helps as a prophylactic. We all understand it's not a solution to all disability. But if it turns some people on to lifting, then net-net there's less disability in the world. Great! What's the problem? (While we're talking about implications, your comment does seem to imply you haven't read the linked article.)
  - kerkeslager 3y ago
    > The article itself is about the process of aging, and resistance exercise helps as a prophylactic. Aging is relevant to the author's case of disability because they mention that they " tried something that, looking back now, maybe [they're] too old for". But a lot of disability has nothing to do with age. I think the point of bringing up age is that a lot of able people are selfish and assume that disability is someone else's problem, when in fact, the vast majority of people will become disabled in their lifetimes. Do you really not see how bringing up a way to prevent disability (which is at best, a small-percentage probablistic solution) sounds like an attempt to refute that point? > But if it turns some people on to lifting, then net-net there's less disability in the world. Sure, and that would be a good thing. But you've gotta understand that in every conversation about disability, many people's only contribution to the conversation is to talk about how people could be less disabled, with almost no non-disabled people willing to engage with actually accommodating disability. It's at best extremely condescending, as if people who are disabled aren't trying their best to not be disabled. There are exceptions, of course, but even in those cases, I tend toward more compassion because there's likely underlying mental illness going on there. Fundamentally, there just isn't a massive societal problem with people not doing enough to not become disabled. The problem is we don't do enough to accommodate disability. Constantly bringing up ways we can avoid being disabled is insensitive and distracts from the real problems and real solutions. At a more basic level: stop trying to present your solutions to a problem you don't have, and listen more to people who have the problem. This is particularly true if your "solution" is to arrogantly tell people how to not have the problem.
JeremyNT 3y ago
This is advice HN tends to trot out periodically, but I find it off-topic at best here. The point of this blog post is to elicit empathy, something often lacking in healthy people who cannot envision themselves suffering from some ailment. Eventually everybody's bodies and minds will fail. Whatever specific mitigation strategies you deploy will eventually become ineffectual and your capabilities will degrade, either by means of age or disease or accident or all three. We can and should do more to make things better for people who have differing levels of physical and mental capabilities because it is the right thing to do, but if that isn't enough, we should also do it out of our own self interest. I'd suggest that bringing out "just get strong with these easy steps" as a response to a person who suffered an injury is particularly missing the point.
trashface 3y ago
You have to be pretty abled already to even start a basic lifting program. I have a nerve impingement in my neck/shoulder, if I even lift 10lb dumbbells over my head a few times, my left arm literally goes numb.

5d41402abc4b 3y ago

My knee pain gets worse when i squat. How old are you?

hollerith 3y ago
I'm 63 and have to stay completely away from cheese or the arthritis in my left knee gets so bad I cannot operate the clutch in an manual-transmission car without doing what feels like permanent damage to the knee. I used Starting Strength to learn how to squat roughly 12 years ago, do squats regularly and have never injured myself even temporarily doing squats although I use much less weight than grandparent does.
lookboil 3y ago
What sort of range of motion are you using? Obviously consulting a physio/exercise physiologist may be helpful, but you may have less pain if you squat to just below parallel. Or other squat variants may be better for you, e.g. front squats (or zombie squats), box squats. Slant board squats are also very good. You could also look at pin squats as it deloads the weight from your body at a very precise depth so no risk of going too deep with the weight and causing pain Check out "knees over toes guy", he has a wealth of good free information on knee recovery. I'm 30 and I squat pain free twice per week despite 3 knee dislocations. Good luck friend
tastysandwich 3y ago
How are you squatting? Technique is really important. I recommend watching some videos by Mark Rippetoe [1], and also filming your squats to review them. The low-bar back squat is a hip-dominant exercise, and when done properly should not put undue stress on the knees. [2] I myself had _terrible_ knee pain from squatting. Then my knee started randomly buckling when I would walk. So I started filming myself. I also used TUBOW [3] to figure out that my knees were drifting far too forward. I corrected my technique accordingly, and started engaging the hips properly. My knee pain went away and I've been pain-free ever since. - [1] Learn to Squat, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhoikoUEI8U - [2] Squats and Your Knees, https://startingstrength.com/article/squats-and-your-knees - [3] Using the TUBOW with Mark Rippetoe, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P_w6dpDC2I
cosmojg 3y ago
My knee pain improves when I squat. For context, my legs are different lengths, and I've had a left medial meniscectomy in the shorter leg. I'm in my late twenties, and the pain is bilateral.
devoutsalsa 3y ago
This is why god invented physical therapists! Had minor knee pain a couple years ago, saw doctor for X-rays just as sanity check, and he referred me to a physical therapist. Got a knee strengthening routine, followed it, and all was good after a month or two.
elric 3y ago
There might be several reasons for this, poor technique and insufficient time for adaptation are probably the most common ones. Though previous injury is certainly another possibility. In general, squats are good for your knees, and will protect your knees from injury. Not only will they strengthen the structures of and around the knees, they will also (literally) lubricate the joints. It takes time to develop a good squat. Many people seem to be limited by their range of motion, especially in the ankles, at least to start off with.
cheald 3y ago
I'm 40, I've had two knee surgeries, and have genetically terrible knees. Squatting incorrectly made them hurt, but I went to see a sports PT and he taught me how to squat correctly (I was overloading my quads and not using my posterior chain like...at all - a proper low-bar squat with the glutes engaged was a total gamechanger), and not only did it fix my knee pain in squats, it fixed my knee pain in general. I went from being functionally crippled in my 20s to competing as an amateur powerlifter and training Brazilian jiujitsu in my late 30s, and I absolutely attribute the foundation of that to squatting and deadlifting. In my personal experience, as a now more seasoned lifter, most people have knee pain in squats because they load the quads and arrest the squat early with the quads rather than hitting full depth. Once your hip crease is below the top of your kneecap, your quads are no longer bearing the load! If you're stopping the lift prior to that, then you're applying a ton of torque to the knee directly with the quad, rather than letting the much more robust posterior chain absorb the energy of the descent. If you haven't tried squatting low-bar, you might give it a go - it makes it much easier to move with the posterior chain. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs_Ej32IYgo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs_Ej32IYgo is my single favorite squat video on the internet. Lots of really good info in it. But, if you don't see improvement, I highly recommend seeing someone who can diagnose and correct how you move.
Yodel0914 3y ago
I'm in my early 40s and have been squatting for ~20yrs. I've just started to notice a bit of a twinge in my knees when squatting, particularly if I'm getting close to my 1RM. Knee straps seem to alleviate it, though I'm not particularly keen on using them. I think I likely need to work a bit more on stability and flexibility, both of which are diminishing faster than raw strength.
silisili 3y ago
Same. Can't even squat my own body weight without my knees wanting to explode. I do think weight training is important, but with physical limitations...
- bratbag 3y ago
  I had the same. In my late 30's even kneeling hurt. That goes away once the muscles gain strength. I've had a personal trainer for years now and in my early 40s I can squat merrily with no pain. Also my neck and back pain have vanished, along with headaches I used to get that would start around the back of my neck and move over my head. Strength training really is amazing. My only regret is 20 years as an adult not doing it. My wife taking every excuse to touch my leg muscles is just an added bonus!
  - silisili 3y ago
    How did you strengthen them in that scenario? We may be a little different as I've had surgery in both knees(ACL and MCL). I'm interested in doing leg work, but physically can't squat...at least yet.
    - bratbag 3y ago
      I started off with a light slam ball provided by my trainer. No squats in sight for the first few months! Over the shoulder throws and ball slams were my leg exercises for a long time. Edit: the main thing was having a good pt who was aware of my injuries. They could tell me when to stop and when to push.
    - cheald 3y ago
      I started by holding onto a stair bannister and squatting slooowly until I could actually get the full range of motion, then unsupported air squats, then I moved to an empty barbell. If you can't go straight to a barbell, or you have back/spine issues, belt squats are a great way to increase your workload as your capacity increases. With those surgeries, starting under the supervision of a PT is a great idea, though. They'll know how to build you up safely.
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rebuilder 3y ago
Knee pain can be from a variety of causes, some of which have to do with the actual joint and some of which don't. For example, medial knee pain can be, to name two options, an MCL tear or just an inflammation of the bursal sac. I had the latter when getting back into exercise after a long break (I'm now 40), and was really worried I had busted my knees. In the end, switching to front squats for a bit and working on mobility as well as paying attention to posture when lifting helped with it. Point being, if you don't know what's causing your knee pain, it's probably a good idea to figure it out first, then think about what could help.

ehnto 3y ago

As someone who was not born 100% able, I have been lifting for 10+ years and I attribute my ongoing robustness to it. I wouldn't be doing half the stuff I do without strength conditioning providing such a robust foundation. Injury defence is a benefit of lifting that is undersold I think. By strengthening all the muscles that support your movement, and limbering up connective tissues you are much less likely to get injured in general life like you said.

satvikpendem 3y ago

Starting Strength is not recommended anymore: https://web.archive.org/web/20200528135350/https://thefitness.wiki/faq/starting-strength-and-stronglifts-not-recommended/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200528135350/https://thefitnes...

cheald 3y ago
Starting Strength is fine for a beginner. It's not an optimal program, but it's simple, easy to understand, and built on good foundational principles. As an on-ramp into resistance training, it's better than a complex program that'll scare beginners off or burn them out.
- satvikpendem 3y ago
  This is directly addressed on that page too: https://web.archive.org/web/20200528135350/https://thefitness.wiki/faq/starting-strength-and-stronglifts-not-recommended/#But_SS_and_SL_are_only_meant_to_be_short_term_programs_for_a_few_months,_so_this_isn%E2%80%99t_a_big_deal https://web.archive.org/web/20200528135350/https://thefitnes... As well as in the section above it.
  - cheald 3y ago
    It still doesn't change the fact that a suboptimal program which keeps beginners engaged and moving forward is infinitely superior to a more complex one that they fall off of.
    - satvikpendem 3y ago
      It does actually. The program is so poor that beginners might not even see enough progress that they're put off from working out, because "what's the point if I've been at it for a month or three and still don't have any gains?" That's why it's better to actually pick a good program, one that shows consistent gains as motivation rather than plateauing as a demotivational force. Other recommended programs like 5/3/1 are not "more complex," that's a false dichotomy. They're just as simple but with different sets of exercises.

iamphilrae 3y ago

I 100% agree. You mention some pretty scary KG numbers there though (but we’ll done)! I just wanted to mention to readers that even squatting a ‘measly’ 50KG or deadlifting 30KG can immensely help with back pain and the physical challenges everyday life throws at you.

nwiswell 3y ago
> You mention some pretty scary KG numbers there > I just wanted to mention to readers that even squatting a ‘measly’ 50KG or deadlifting 30KG Yes -- this is really important to contextualize. Barbell resistance training is actually two things: 1) A method of exercise that has a variety of well-quantified health benefits including improvements in strength, bone density, and connective tissue. More muscle also means you can eat more without getting fat. 2) A competitive strength sport (generally called powerlifting; weightlifting usually refers to the explosive overhead lifts seen at the Olympics). Your strength goals can, and should, depend entirely on your objectives. If you're aiming to compete, a 150KG squat and 200KG deadlift would put you around the median in the lowest male weight classes. If you just want to get in shape, it's overkill.
- mise_en_place 3y ago
  It's also relative to your body weight. A 150 kg squat for someone who weighs 118 kg (i.e. me) is not that impressive. Whereas an 80 kg squat if you weigh 80 kg is extremely impressive. You should be aiming to lift 1x-1.5x your body weight, over time.
  - dmurray 3y ago
    I don't get it, 1x bodyweight is impressive for a smaller person?
    - omnimus 3y ago
      Yeah i thought if you look at the top performers it actually gets harder if you are heavy to keep with lighter performers in terms of multiplier. The lighter performers win the multiplier game. But maybe its different if you look at amateurs.

quickthrower2 3y ago

I am doing weight training for fatigue. The idea is 55%, 65%, 75%, 85% weeks. The % is perceived effort. That might be bench pressing just the bar sometimes. And I go twice a week, and do about 7 different exercises. It is not "perfect" but it is f'ing consistent. Knowing there is a 55% week coming up, and it is OK and that it is perceived effort so you can lower weights if you feel shit, makes this very stick-to-able.

zmmmmm 3y ago

A similar vein but muuuuch simpler for anybody who isn't up for weights. Each day, before anything else: 1. 3 mins stretching 2. 20 (real) situps (3 mins) 3. 10 pushups (2 mins) I actually usually do a good bit more exercise more than this, but this is my minimum day starting routine, no matter where I am, or what I'm doing. It takes less than 10 minutes and keeps a bare minimum of strength in your lower back and arms. The lower back part is key for people who work in chairs all day. You can do a lot of types of exercise and still not maintain those lower back muscles which are so key to ensure your lumbar is protected.

Gud 3y ago
A small amount of exercise each day will do wonders for your overall fitness, especially when starting out. You don’t need to hit the gym for an hour to feel the results. Like parent poster is doing, body weight exercises are terrific. I would also like to say that planks are an extremely effective exercise.
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lloeki 3y ago
Got 5min? Try this, it's much more complete*, engaging the back a lot. Title is a catchy "burn belly fat" but it's more like core training + cardio. It looks scary but anyone (without a precluding condition) can do it. It's only HIIT if you make it so, the key is to pace yourself according to your level, going slow if needed so as to complete each of the 30s. If you can't do the full range, do a partial range, but do that range with proper form so as not to hurt yourself, don't force through it, it'll get better over time. Aim for consistency, not short term record. Side note: lubricate joints before (do rotations and flexing), stretch after exercise: stretching before increases risk of injury. If you really want to stretch before, do dynamic stretching, not static. * doing only sit-ups and push-ups strengthens frontside massively, so front-back is not balanced, further increasing the forward arching position (starting with nerd neck) induced by long term sitting. Front training is important for all-day sitters as these muscles (which should be engaged all along the day but are not) atrophy, but overtraining front (vs back) amplifies the issue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlantbhXp4Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlantbhXp4Y

raverbashing 3y ago

SS is just one of many "starter programs", though I don't get why people like the dogmatic approach, or putting labels onto things > awkwardly leaning over your lawn mower to grab a 20KG bag of concrete is pretty easy. True. Still, don't do it (or, I mean, do it the proper way)

throwaway4good 3y ago

I think that is missing the point a bit; regardless of how healthy a lifestyle you live you still will end up suffering from some kind of disability. Perhaps of a cause completely outside your control (stroke, heart problem, accident). Not to say that strength training isn't good for you of course. But it may not actually prepare you for things to come (unlike having a healthy family life, an identity outside work and physical fitness).

quickthrower2 3y ago
You do reduce the probability of an issue though. And increase the chance you can help others.
maccard 3y ago
Its not a binary thing. On my dad's side, there is a history of hip issues, sciatica, upper back and shoulder mobility issues. One of his siblings is in his early 60's, retired, and can only be described as "active". He's not powerlifting or anything like that but gym, cycling, gardening, every day or other day. He's on his second hip, soon to be third. His other sibling is late 50's, also on their second hip about to get their third. They're limited to 2-300 yards of walking, can't really stand unaided for long periods of time, struggle with their sleep, etc etc. The easiest comparison is that the older one is, and always has been more active. Sure it's complicated, sure you can't prepare for an unexpected diagnosis, but I'd you're 60 with no active health scares, your quality of life is going to be dictated by how much you looked after yourself, not just luck.
nextlevelwizard 3y ago
>I think that is missing the point a bit same right back at you. just because at some point you might (or I guess you and the author are arguing will) get injured doesn't mean strengthening yourself is invalid. in fact healthier and in better shape you are the less likely you are to suffer debilitating injury. tweaking my strong knee that is used to squatting heavy weights and otherwise supporting active lifting is way different than my father tweaking he's knee with artificial joint. at least for me the problem is lettings things get worse. I should learn to seek help/corrective action right away, but I always just want to "see if I can ride it out" which can then turn into months of unnecessary suffering with long lasting issues. pre-emptively starting resistance training is very beneficial for most people.

vekker 3y ago

I really enjoyed the Starting Strength program (I was going to abbreviate it at first, but then realized that sounds a bit sketchy out of context), and I noticed the benefits too. The only reason I quit a few years ago is because of my concerns about the strain it puts on the cardiovascular system. Especially for someone already doing mostly desk work, I wonder how healthy it really is. I still do resistance training, but with higher reps and less weight. Not incrementally increasing the weight as SS prescribes.

angrais 3y ago
Why do you have this concern? Did you notice any changes in breathing or such?
- vekker 3y ago
  A family history of high blood pressure and pretty much any doctor I've spoken to advising against strength training with heavy weights.

koonsolo 3y ago

Alternatively you could do bodyweigth training if you prefer that (like me) 1. Pull: such as pullup 2. Push: towards one arm one leg pushup 3. Legs: Pistol up (=1 leg squat) 4. Core: V-ups and bridge works for me. Once we went carting with the company. Everybody was sore afterwards in all kinds of places (software devs :)). I was fine.

quickthrower2 3y ago
1,2,3 are intermediate level though. After a year I cam do 6 reps of 1, 0 reps of 2, probably 15 of 3 and 90s bridge. But a sedate person might enjoy a gym better or TRX maybe to assist as these are hard for average Joe.
fdgjgbdfhgb 3y ago
If you are a beginner and want to start with calisthenics, I recommend the Hybrid Routine[1]. It has really nice progressions for all exercised mentioned above (and it's free!) [1] https://www.hybridcalisthenics.com/routine https://www.hybridcalisthenics.com/routine

philjohn 3y ago

Keeping strength up, especially in old age, is crucial. My father was admitted to hospital for something, and spent a few weeks on the ward. When he was released he was super frail and had to use a walker. Losing strength is easy, getting it back (especially in your 80's) is damn hard.

ekidd 3y ago

I powerlifed for years, with a truly excellent coach for much of that time. For what it was worth, she was Starting Strength certified and a successful international masters competitor. She fixed a subtle problem with my deadlift using nothing but the wrinkles on my T-shirt; my recovery improved dramatically. At 40, I was stronger than I was as a high school wrestler. I loved lifting. I remember casually picking up a piece of equipment that took two burly guys to lift and jumping down from a pickup with it. But over the course of several years, I picked up several small but persistent injuries lifting. Two can be worked around. One makes it very hard to squat for more than a few weeks of training. None of the injuries, fortunately, affects me noticeably in daily life. But I'll never wide-grip bench press again, either. When I was coming to terms with these injuries, I had a long talk with the oldest natty lifters in my gym. The powerlifers were all dealing with various chronic injuries. (Seriously, Rippetoe has published a bit of his medical history. He's a mess of injuries.) But you know who was still lifting in their 60s and even 70s, injury-free for decades at a stretch? The natty bodybuilders. One of the oldest looked over at me one day, and said, "You know, I don't like the risk/reward on heavy squats. You do them flawlessly for years, and then one day, a group of muscle fibers decides to misfire for a moment when you're under the bar." So, enjoy Starting Strength, or whatever other beginner program Reddit likes this year. And the two Starting Strength certified coaches I've known were excellent. Good technique is absolutely worth it. But once you've gotten those sweet beginner gains, talk to the old lifters, and think long and hard about where you want to go next. Because nothing is as important as remaining injury-free. And every older powerlifter I met was dealing with chronic injuries. Once gains get difficult, think about what you really want out of lifting.

pulpfictional 3y ago
What's the plan to stay injury-free? I don't know any bodybuilders.
- oarfish 3y ago
  Don't exceed your recovery resources. Anecdotal reports are not helpful when determining injury risk. Overall injury incidence in strength sports is very low. But if you do it to compete, maybe there is an argument to be made that pushing the limits increases it. Overall though, the much greater risk is to not train. Whether you do barbell movements or machines is not a determinant of of health outcomes, as far as we know. I would not put stock in anecdote without some numbers on injuries among non-competing powerlifters.

wouldbecouldbe 3y ago

For normal people, please lift, it's amazing, but just don't go too heavy, especially with squats & dead lifts. The risk is too high. Get to squat 150kg is highly likely to cause back injuries for a vast majority of the people. Whereas lifting 50% of max reps with higher reps will get you similar benefits, in most cases even more muscle growth, without the high risk of injuries.

stavros 3y ago

On the flip side, I did SS in my twenties (15 years ago) and, while doing a deadlift, my back popped and started hurting. I've had back pain since. I wouldn't recommend deadlifts. The worst part about it is that everyone always says "you didn't have proper form!" but, in that case, if you can follow all the advice in the program and still have bad form, it just sounds like a way to dismiss injuries as "your fault, not the program's".

layer8 3y ago

This becomes much more difficult once you already have injuries though.

chadcmulligan 3y ago

Core strength is great, pilates does the same with less effort though.

WA 3y ago

Yeah, about that: I started with a solid bodyweight fitness regime and after 10 good workouts over 4 weeks, two of my finger hurt to the point of feeling like they're damaged and the palm of my hand feels overtrained and constantly tense or something. Gives me pain with every pushup. So, "it's really that easy" actually causes pain that I also feel when I hold a cup of tea. I'm not saying that one shouldn't start lifting weights, but no matter what you do, you can be (temporarily) disabled for any reason, which is precisely what the article is about.

coffeebeqn 3y ago
I always get wrist pain from push ups also so I had to stop doing them

11235813213455 3y ago

This looks good for power, less for endurance (like hike/bike uphill), for a computer job we also need endurance, not big muscles, so I walk, sometimes run, climb trees and rocks, (forage figs), squat for hours (static), and surely no added weight. In short I think selling your car, and using your legs daily as much as possible is what's best

bradley13 3y ago

Absolutely right, although I cannot lift the amounts you list. For me, weight lifting has nothing to do with "power lifting".. I have a weight-machine and a few barbells in my house, and use them 2-3 times a week, sometimes more, sometimes less. I am older, I have no six-pack, I am not particularly muscular. It's not about that. It's about keeping what you have, and keeping what you have reasonably fit. Muscles support your joints. Weight training also strengthens the ligaments and tendons that hold everything together. If you do it as "circuit training" (only a few seconds between different exercises), it also serves as cardiovascular exercise. All of this is important for everyone, especially as you get older...

endisneigh 3y ago

Though I agree with your point, I would advise against this. Instead I would advise someone to master body weight exercises. Pull ups, push ups, hand stands, etc. Master motor control, balance and ability to control your own weight. The problem with lifting is no matter how good your form is, injuries are inevitable and made worse due to the extra resistance.

mlrtime 3y ago
Giving advice to people starting out to try and master hand stands is not a good idea. Other body weight exercises like push-ups are a great supplement though. If there are no weights involved, I'd recommend people just do yoga instead, but leave hand stands out for a long time.
- endisneigh 3y ago
  Why? They’re not that difficult, especially if someone is there to assistance or you have a wall. It’s also a yoga position. Now obviously I wouldn’t start out with hand stands since you need to be in pretty good shape (like a pull up you probably can’t do it unless you’re in decent shape anyways). It’s certainly safer than having literally hundreds of pounds above your neck.
  - mlrtime 3y ago
    Because it has become a new fad and people jump into it without understanding the risks, which lead to injury. I spent a very long time training for hand stands (pressing up) , it is an advanced skill. In Ashtanga yoga it is considered an advanced level which some yogis may never achieve.

jabroni_salad 3y ago

My dad did a lot of bodybuilding, and martial arts, and swam miles a week too. Just loved physical activity. Last year he slipped a disk putting gas in his car. Backs are really arbitrary and you can do a lot to finesse the dice, but you're still gonna roll snake eyes on something.

cyrialize 3y ago

I'm personally a fan of the Greyskull Linear Progression or GSLP. I'm pretty much a fan of any LP since if you stick with it you get a ton of strength gains. It's essentially: Day A: - Squat 2x5, 1x5 AMRAP - OHP / Bench (Alternate) 2x5, 1x5 AMRAP Day B: - Deadlift, 1x5 AMRAP - OHP / Bench (Alternate) 2x5, 1x5 AMRAP So you are only squatting twice a week and deadlifting once a week, versus SS with squats everyday. A typically schedule following M-W-F for two weeks could look like the following: M: Squat & Bench W: Deadlift & OHP F: Squat & Bench M: Squat & OHP W: Deadlift & Bench F: Squat & OHP I highly recommend purchasing 1.25 plates so that you can increase weights by 2.5 pounds versus 5. I did this for bench and OHP and that was when I really started seeing gains! AMRAP stands for as many reps as possible and works as a good metric for moving up a weight or staying at a weight. If you do 5 at the end, you may want to stay. If you do 10 or more, you can double the weight increase. The other cool part of AMRAP is that you now have another metric besides weight - you can try to break previous rep records, especially if you deload and are working your way back up to previous working weights. At the end of the day, sticking with any LP would be good. I just like GSLP since I'm not squatting every day. All that being said, I started off with SS and that was what got me to a 315 pound squat. Doing GSLP is what got me to 220.5 bench and a 135 OHP (all for reps)! I think the tiny incremental plate (1.25 plates) and AMRAP sets are what helped me the most.

kerkeslager 3y ago

As usual, Hacker News presents the anti-human take in the top few most upvoted comments. Although this is an unusually subtle one. I say this as a guy who still works a Starting-Strength-based program. Power lifting is great--it changed my life. But it's NOT a solution to disability and it's NOT a foolproof prevention. The implication that "if people just got off their asses and did some exercise they wouldn't be disabled!" is disgusting.

nwiswell 3y ago
This is an extremely cynical take. (As usual, Hacker News!) > The implication that "if people just got off their asses and did some exercise they wouldn't be disabled!" is disgusting. I don't know how you got that implication. It seems like you agree that lifting is great. Many people don't do resistance exercise. The article itself is about the process of aging, and resistance exercise helps as a prophylactic. We all understand it's not a solution to all disability. But if it turns some people on to lifting, then net-net there's less disability in the world. Great! What's the problem? (While we're talking about implications, your comment does seem to imply you haven't read the linked article.)
- kerkeslager 3y ago
  > The article itself is about the process of aging, and resistance exercise helps as a prophylactic. Aging is relevant to the author's case of disability because they mention that they " tried something that, looking back now, maybe [they're] too old for". But a lot of disability has nothing to do with age. I think the point of bringing up age is that a lot of able people are selfish and assume that disability is someone else's problem, when in fact, the vast majority of people will become disabled in their lifetimes. Do you really not see how bringing up a way to prevent disability (which is at best, a small-percentage probablistic solution) sounds like an attempt to refute that point? > But if it turns some people on to lifting, then net-net there's less disability in the world. Sure, and that would be a good thing. But you've gotta understand that in every conversation about disability, many people's only contribution to the conversation is to talk about how people could be less disabled, with almost no non-disabled people willing to engage with actually accommodating disability. It's at best extremely condescending, as if people who are disabled aren't trying their best to not be disabled. There are exceptions, of course, but even in those cases, I tend toward more compassion because there's likely underlying mental illness going on there. Fundamentally, there just isn't a massive societal problem with people not doing enough to not become disabled. The problem is we don't do enough to accommodate disability. Constantly bringing up ways we can avoid being disabled is insensitive and distracts from the real problems and real solutions. At a more basic level: stop trying to present your solutions to a problem you don't have, and listen more to people who have the problem. This is particularly true if your "solution" is to arrogantly tell people how to not have the problem.

JeremyNT 3y ago

This is advice HN tends to trot out periodically, but I find it off-topic at best here. The point of this blog post is to elicit empathy, something often lacking in healthy people who cannot envision themselves suffering from some ailment. Eventually everybody's bodies and minds will fail. Whatever specific mitigation strategies you deploy will eventually become ineffectual and your capabilities will degrade, either by means of age or disease or accident or all three. We can and should do more to make things better for people who have differing levels of physical and mental capabilities because it is the right thing to do, but if that isn't enough, we should also do it out of our own self interest. I'd suggest that bringing out "just get strong with these easy steps" as a response to a person who suffered an injury is particularly missing the point.

trashface 3y ago

You have to be pretty abled already to even start a basic lifting program. I have a nerve impingement in my neck/shoulder, if I even lift 10lb dumbbells over my head a few times, my left arm literally goes numb.