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California's Weapons of Math Destruction

48 points by rahimnathwani 3y ago

archo 3y ago
https://archive.is/jbpgy https://archive.is/jbpgy
syndicatedjelly 3y ago
[flagged]
yumraj 3y ago
Funny thing is that I can guarantee it will increase inequality. I will make sure that my kids take extra private math enrichment classes so nothing will change for them. But for others who were relying on these to be provided by school, they will be left behind. Those who would have been left behind before, would still be left behind. So net effect would be opposite of whatever the intent may have been. I hope UCs will not be changing their requirements in response to this.
- ofcourseyoudo 3y ago
  >Funny thing is that I can guarantee it will increase inequality. Let's put money on this with measurable standards. Say, $10,000?
  - ETH_start 3y ago
    How would we go about measuring this inequality? With standardized testing—or indeed any testing that measures aptitude in actual math—being phased out, what do you propose be used as the measure of math aptitude that could inform us of changes in inequality in math proficiency?
    - ofcourseyoudo 3y ago
      However the commenter likes. I think it's ridiculous to say "I guarantee this will increase inequality". But if he's that confident... and no doubt he is a "he"... let's put money where mouths are.
      - ETH_start 3y ago
        It could be entirely reasonable to guarantee something like that. It's a figure of speech as well, and doesn't imply that they have a way of proving it. And why are you confident they are a "he"? Anyway, I think the onus is on you to specify a way of settling the bet since you offered it.
- gloryjulio 3y ago
  Exactly, capable parents will do whatever they can to help their children.
- avmich 3y ago
  A good approach would be the opposite - provide as many math classes as kids (or their parents) want, so if something is amiss, it could be repeated or re-taught differently. Make the environment where private schools don't make sense. Expensive though.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- elintknower 3y ago
  Wow, I hadn't thought about this! You're absolutely right and states like CA and OR who have made claims akin to or almost literally that "math is racist" will certainly observe an even greater disparity. The best way I've found to explain this kind of "empathy" or policy strategy is strikingly similar to the cognitive dissonance (high flying moral stupidity) of environmentalists who protest the construction or funding of new nuclear power plants.
junofan 3y ago
The numbers are abysmal. Only 27% of grade 11 students meet state standards in math. Clearly something’s gotta change.
- juanani 3y ago
  [dead]
- personomas 3y ago
  Yeah, but these are not the changes we need. This is more of the same - going in the wrong direction.
kkarakk 3y ago
Devil's advocate - I personally wonder if having the average person be able to understand math is essential sometimes. Between smartphones having conversational agents that can do math to things like tax/tipping calculators being in-built into systems, does the "average joe" need algebra. I'm sure we've all seen the viral math problems that show that even now the "average joe" doesn't understand even PEMDAS - and most of the time these are working functional members of society. Will it cause problems "upstream" so that colleges/jobs need to include the course training? sure but isn't specialization what careers are about? The existence of computers doesn't mean that everyone needs to know how to "learn to code" as an analogy.
- phlakaton 3y ago
  I don’t think the devil needs your help. This is a very real and pernicious belief behind the assertion that we should continue to leave large fractions of our student population behind when it comes to math. We say it’s too hard for them. It’s too hard to teach them. They don’t really need it. Excuses, excuses. It’s a colossal failure of imagination, as far as I’m concerned. I think developing mathematical thinking is an absolutely nonnegotiable part of a complete public education. If kids are coming out of school with no clue of how to do it, we have got to mend that breach, not leave it. BTW I think it’s utterly irrelevant whether someone “gets” PEMDAS or not. That’s not math. To the contrary, it belies a rote, formulaic way of thinking that is almost inimical to math.
  - throwawaylinux 3y ago
    What are the outcomes for a person who was taught to sufficiently develop their "mathematical thinking", versus not?
  - sidongio123 3y ago
    >BTW I think it’s utterly irrelevant whether someone “gets” PEMDAS or not. That’s not math. To the contrary, it belies a rote, formulaic way of thinking that is almost inimical to math. Being able to "get" PEMDAS in particular doesn't matter. Being able to "get" things like PEMDAS matters a great deal. Understanding that there are rules that bind the squiggly lines on the page is an idea about as central to mathematics as any I know.

48 points by rahimnathwani 3y ago

archo 3y ago

https://archive.is/jbpgy https://archive.is/jbpgy

syndicatedjelly 3y ago

[flagged]

yumraj 3y ago

Funny thing is that I can guarantee it will increase inequality. I will make sure that my kids take extra private math enrichment classes so nothing will change for them. But for others who were relying on these to be provided by school, they will be left behind. Those who would have been left behind before, would still be left behind. So net effect would be opposite of whatever the intent may have been. I hope UCs will not be changing their requirements in response to this.

ofcourseyoudo 3y ago
>Funny thing is that I can guarantee it will increase inequality. Let's put money on this with measurable standards. Say, $10,000?
- ETH_start 3y ago
  How would we go about measuring this inequality? With standardized testing—or indeed any testing that measures aptitude in actual math—being phased out, what do you propose be used as the measure of math aptitude that could inform us of changes in inequality in math proficiency?
  - ofcourseyoudo 3y ago
    However the commenter likes. I think it's ridiculous to say "I guarantee this will increase inequality". But if he's that confident... and no doubt he is a "he"... let's put money where mouths are.
    - ETH_start 3y ago
      It could be entirely reasonable to guarantee something like that. It's a figure of speech as well, and doesn't imply that they have a way of proving it. And why are you confident they are a "he"? Anyway, I think the onus is on you to specify a way of settling the bet since you offered it.
gloryjulio 3y ago
Exactly, capable parents will do whatever they can to help their children.
avmich 3y ago
A good approach would be the opposite - provide as many math classes as kids (or their parents) want, so if something is amiss, it could be repeated or re-taught differently. Make the environment where private schools don't make sense. Expensive though.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
elintknower 3y ago
Wow, I hadn't thought about this! You're absolutely right and states like CA and OR who have made claims akin to or almost literally that "math is racist" will certainly observe an even greater disparity. The best way I've found to explain this kind of "empathy" or policy strategy is strikingly similar to the cognitive dissonance (high flying moral stupidity) of environmentalists who protest the construction or funding of new nuclear power plants.

junofan 3y ago

The numbers are abysmal. Only 27% of grade 11 students meet state standards in math. Clearly something’s gotta change.

juanani 3y ago
[dead]
personomas 3y ago
Yeah, but these are not the changes we need. This is more of the same - going in the wrong direction.

kkarakk 3y ago

Devil's advocate - I personally wonder if having the average person be able to understand math is essential sometimes. Between smartphones having conversational agents that can do math to things like tax/tipping calculators being in-built into systems, does the "average joe" need algebra. I'm sure we've all seen the viral math problems that show that even now the "average joe" doesn't understand even PEMDAS - and most of the time these are working functional members of society. Will it cause problems "upstream" so that colleges/jobs need to include the course training? sure but isn't specialization what careers are about? The existence of computers doesn't mean that everyone needs to know how to "learn to code" as an analogy.

phlakaton 3y ago
I don’t think the devil needs your help. This is a very real and pernicious belief behind the assertion that we should continue to leave large fractions of our student population behind when it comes to math. We say it’s too hard for them. It’s too hard to teach them. They don’t really need it. Excuses, excuses. It’s a colossal failure of imagination, as far as I’m concerned. I think developing mathematical thinking is an absolutely nonnegotiable part of a complete public education. If kids are coming out of school with no clue of how to do it, we have got to mend that breach, not leave it. BTW I think it’s utterly irrelevant whether someone “gets” PEMDAS or not. That’s not math. To the contrary, it belies a rote, formulaic way of thinking that is almost inimical to math.
- throwawaylinux 3y ago
  What are the outcomes for a person who was taught to sufficiently develop their "mathematical thinking", versus not?
- sidongio123 3y ago
  >BTW I think it’s utterly irrelevant whether someone “gets” PEMDAS or not. That’s not math. To the contrary, it belies a rote, formulaic way of thinking that is almost inimical to math. Being able to "get" PEMDAS in particular doesn't matter. Being able to "get" things like PEMDAS matters a great deal. Understanding that there are rules that bind the squiggly lines on the page is an idea about as central to mathematics as any I know.