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You thought that routine preventative dental care was an unnecessary upsell?

by seattle_spring 3y ago

doubled112 3y ago
Are you saying that we should routinely anesthetize our animals to clean their teeth?
- ajju 3y ago
  Sincere question: my relatively non-aggressive-at-sales vet, whose office has beocome a bit more aggressive recently, said this month that my nearly 12 year old dog has had a tooth fracture for over a year - and it needs a $X,000 removal relatively soon, for which he would have to go under anaesthesia and stay the day. Pup has been eating fine, and continues to eat fine, including relatively hard stuff (no bones or bully sticks but softer dental chews). He does have an accumulation of plaque on said tooth which indicates he favors the other side, and despite the hard pitch, I doubt the vet is lying about a fracture. The literature online is very equivocal about whether tooth removal is needed and says some fractured teeth are fine and don't cause pain. Any advice / information sources you trust on how to triage this situation?
  - Eisenstein 3y ago
    Get a second opinion?
  - bombcar 3y ago
    I would consult with a few additional vets, perhaps some further out in the countryside and/or older. You need to balance the quality of life of your dog, the cost, the change of death or other complications, along with alternative options (such as switching food when it gets worse).
    - ajju 3y ago
      Thanks. While steep, I’ll happily pay for the procedure if the risks are minimal and the impact on his quality of life is likely to be meaningfully positive.
      - bombcar 3y ago
        Yeah, I'd be less inquisitive about price and more asking the other vets to "level with you on the risks". And the risks may be acceptable, especially if it comes down to "dog continues to live with ever increasing pain" vs "99% chance of pain free vs 1% chance of peacefully passes away on the operating table".
  - throwawaylinux 3y ago
    My vet told me a lot of dogs have high pain thresholds and/or will hide their injuries, so they won't necessarily stop eating from mouth pain. He wasn't trying to upsell me, I was asking why my dog was avoiding food and wondering whether it could be a tooth problem (so unlikely to be the case). That doesn't help much I know, just make sure you get advice from people you trust have a care about dog's quality of life.
    - ajju 3y ago
      makes sense. thanks.
- seattle_spring 3y ago
  All of the reputable information I can find, in addition to the advice of literally every vet I've ever worked with over the last 20 years, says "yes." What reputable source (not something like "naturalnews.com") do you have that says that this is unnecessary and dangerous?
alister 3y ago
What vets are selling is not the $100 dental cleaning people get. They do the procedure under general anesthesia and all the associated procedures brings the cost well over $1000. But the worst part is the huge risk to animal: something like 1% of cats die during cleaning under general anesthesia. This is a totally unacceptable risk to your pet for a cleaning. If it's actually for a serious dental condition, then you can weigh the risks. But it's pretty sad that vets push such a risky procedure.
- seattle_spring 3y ago
  > something like 1% of cats die during cleaning under general anesthesia Pretty damning if true. Surely there are a wealth of sources that corroborate this figure? Eta: also, it's important to know the early mortality rate of untreated animals versus those that do receive dental cleaning every year. Is it less than the claimed risk of the treatment itself?
  - wodenokoto 3y ago
    The argument is not that it is unnecessary to clean their teeth, it is that it is unnecessary to put them under general anaesthesia in order to clean their teeth.
    - Yiin 3y ago
      Depending on a cat, cleaning their teath while they're conscious might stress the fuck out of the animal, resulting both in quite uncomfortable for the cat treatment to keep them in a place and difficulties for the vet to get to the back of the teeth. Whoever does dental work for unsadated cats 99% only reaches for front teeth, and not actually potentially problematic areas.
    - RugnirViking 3y ago
      I struggle to imagine the process of cleaning an animals teeth while they're concious. They would be near certain they are about to die. Then imagine doing that 5 or so times a day with animals you've never met before.

You thought that routine preventative dental care was an unnecessary upsell?

doubled112 3y ago

Are you saying that we should routinely anesthetize our animals to clean their teeth?

ajju 3y ago
Sincere question: my relatively non-aggressive-at-sales vet, whose office has beocome a bit more aggressive recently, said this month that my nearly 12 year old dog has had a tooth fracture for over a year - and it needs a $X,000 removal relatively soon, for which he would have to go under anaesthesia and stay the day. Pup has been eating fine, and continues to eat fine, including relatively hard stuff (no bones or bully sticks but softer dental chews). He does have an accumulation of plaque on said tooth which indicates he favors the other side, and despite the hard pitch, I doubt the vet is lying about a fracture. The literature online is very equivocal about whether tooth removal is needed and says some fractured teeth are fine and don't cause pain. Any advice / information sources you trust on how to triage this situation?
- Eisenstein 3y ago
  Get a second opinion?
- bombcar 3y ago
  I would consult with a few additional vets, perhaps some further out in the countryside and/or older. You need to balance the quality of life of your dog, the cost, the change of death or other complications, along with alternative options (such as switching food when it gets worse).
  - ajju 3y ago
    Thanks. While steep, I’ll happily pay for the procedure if the risks are minimal and the impact on his quality of life is likely to be meaningfully positive.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      Yeah, I'd be less inquisitive about price and more asking the other vets to "level with you on the risks". And the risks may be acceptable, especially if it comes down to "dog continues to live with ever increasing pain" vs "99% chance of pain free vs 1% chance of peacefully passes away on the operating table".
- throwawaylinux 3y ago
  My vet told me a lot of dogs have high pain thresholds and/or will hide their injuries, so they won't necessarily stop eating from mouth pain. He wasn't trying to upsell me, I was asking why my dog was avoiding food and wondering whether it could be a tooth problem (so unlikely to be the case). That doesn't help much I know, just make sure you get advice from people you trust have a care about dog's quality of life.
  - ajju 3y ago
    makes sense. thanks.
seattle_spring 3y ago
All of the reputable information I can find, in addition to the advice of literally every vet I've ever worked with over the last 20 years, says "yes." What reputable source (not something like "naturalnews.com") do you have that says that this is unnecessary and dangerous?

alister 3y ago

What vets are selling is not the $100 dental cleaning people get. They do the procedure under general anesthesia and all the associated procedures brings the cost well over $1000. But the worst part is the huge risk to animal: something like 1% of cats die during cleaning under general anesthesia. This is a totally unacceptable risk to your pet for a cleaning. If it's actually for a serious dental condition, then you can weigh the risks. But it's pretty sad that vets push such a risky procedure.

seattle_spring 3y ago
> something like 1% of cats die during cleaning under general anesthesia Pretty damning if true. Surely there are a wealth of sources that corroborate this figure? Eta: also, it's important to know the early mortality rate of untreated animals versus those that do receive dental cleaning every year. Is it less than the claimed risk of the treatment itself?
- wodenokoto 3y ago
  The argument is not that it is unnecessary to clean their teeth, it is that it is unnecessary to put them under general anaesthesia in order to clean their teeth.
  - Yiin 3y ago
    Depending on a cat, cleaning their teath while they're conscious might stress the fuck out of the animal, resulting both in quite uncomfortable for the cat treatment to keep them in a place and difficulties for the vet to get to the back of the teeth. Whoever does dental work for unsadated cats 99% only reaches for front teeth, and not actually potentially problematic areas.
  - RugnirViking 3y ago
    I struggle to imagine the process of cleaning an animals teeth while they're concious. They would be near certain they are about to die. Then imagine doing that 5 or so times a day with animals you've never met before.