5 ms·

I am skeptical, especially Mr Grusch seems like full of sh*t. But a pilot named David Fravor testified along him, described his first hand account under oath.

I am skeptical, especially Mr Grusch seems like full of sh*t. But a pilot named David Fravor testified along him, described his first hand account under oath. The second pilot that that flew along side with him on that occasion corroborated his words as well in 60 min interview: https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/navy-ufo-sighting-60-minutes-2021-08-29/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/navy-ufo-sighting-60-minute... Having a very qualified pilot there at least worth attention.

mcpackieh 3y ago
By his own account, David Fravor perpetrated a UFO hoax for lulz on a different occasion. Experienced pilot != Trustworthy. From the horse's mouth: (3:52) https://youtu.be/PRM8AMrqqsc?t=232 https://youtu.be/PRM8AMrqqsc?t=232 Fravor: I have a sick sense of humor at times, so like I said I had all these [qualifications] so we used to fly, they don't do it right now because it's a little bit dangerous, but we used to fly night vision goggles low-altitude in Hornets, all right. So when you put on night-vision googles they amplify light, like a lot, so you can see a campfire like 50 miles away. So we used to do it, the good spots were down in Lake Isle Central California, there's a range, there's some bombing ranges, but people go camping up in the Superstition Mountains, which is kind of north and west of Imperial, by.. I forget what it is, the springs it's [unintelligible] it'll come to me in a minute... So we would go out at night flying on goggles and you'd see a campfire and you'd go 'Oh, UFO time', and then you'd get the airplane going about six hundred knots and then you'd pull the power back to idle so you can't hear it and you'd get zinging towards the fire. Well you turn the lights all down because we're in restricted area so we can do that, and there's lights on that you can only see if you're on night-vsion goggles so the other airplanes can see us but nobody else can se us. Then you go zinging at it and right when you get to the campfire you pull the airplane into the vertical, you stroke the afterburners, you let them light off, you count to three and pull them off and then you just go away. Instant UFO reporting. "I'm sitting out in the desert, it's all quite and all of a sudden there's a roar[?], there's lights in the sky, and they go away and it's gone!" Rogan: So you would do that just to fuck with campers? Fravor: Yes.
- YeBanKo 3y ago
  I watched the interview in the entirety. It basically him explaining why 99.99% of all the sightings can’t be trusted. He explains how some real but weird sighting can be explained with narrow expertise. He is not just experienced, he was one of the top fighter pilots at that time. One thing is to fuck with campers and ufo “enthusiasts”, another is to go on record and testify before congress.
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    He wasn't describing only what other pilots have done, but what he has done. He flatly admits that he has a sick sense of humor which manifests as pranking people into believing they've seen UFOs. The number of people ever convicted of perjury for lying to Congress is tiny, and in this case particularly it would be very easy for him to fall back on 'I believe I saw what I saw!' Saying it under oath to Congress confers zero credibility to me. It's no more meaningful than saying it to Joe Rogan.
    - haswell 3y ago
      What I don’t agree with is the implication that a willingness to play pranks automatically equates to a willingness to lie to congress/the American people. As a thought experiment, imagine for a moment that these UAPs are real phenomena and of non-human origin. Given the pop culture behaviors about UFOs - specifically those of skepticism and rolling one’s eyes at true believers - it’s not hard to imagine that this would be considered funny, and ultimately harmless (even if ill advised). Now he’s flying a mission and see presumably the real thing. “Shiiiit, nobody’s going to believe me now after those pranks”. Could he be fabricating all of this? Or at least intentionally sharing misleading information? Possibly. But it’s also not hard to imagine a completely earnest version of this playing out. I just don’t see the direct connection between the prior behavior and this public testimony.
      - mcpackieh 3y ago
        I'm one of the top forest rangers in America. I am a trained and experienced forest observer, so when I tell you that I've seen bigfoot, you know I have a lot of credibility. Now, I know what you're thinking, lots of people have hoaxed bigfoot sightings before. That is true, in fact I myself once rented a gorilla suit and pranced around in the woods pranking campers. With my suit on I turned off my flashlight and ran up to their campfire OOKing and EEKing, then ran back off into the trees. Instant bigfoot sighting. I have a sick sense of humor like that. Anyway, I tell you this so that you know I understand most bigfoot sightings aren't real, but I'm telling you now that I did see bigfoot for real! I swear it on my mum's life. Why, I'll even swear it to a room fool of politicians.

mcpackieh 3y ago

By his own account, David Fravor perpetrated a UFO hoax for lulz on a different occasion. Experienced pilot != Trustworthy. From the horse's mouth: (3:52) https://youtu.be/PRM8AMrqqsc?t=232 https://youtu.be/PRM8AMrqqsc?t=232 Fravor: I have a sick sense of humor at times, so like I said I had all these [qualifications] so we used to fly, they don't do it right now because it's a little bit dangerous, but we used to fly night vision goggles low-altitude in Hornets, all right. So when you put on night-vision googles they amplify light, like a lot, so you can see a campfire like 50 miles away. So we used to do it, the good spots were down in Lake Isle Central California, there's a range, there's some bombing ranges, but people go camping up in the Superstition Mountains, which is kind of north and west of Imperial, by.. I forget what it is, the springs it's [unintelligible] it'll come to me in a minute... So we would go out at night flying on goggles and you'd see a campfire and you'd go 'Oh, UFO time', and then you'd get the airplane going about six hundred knots and then you'd pull the power back to idle so you can't hear it and you'd get zinging towards the fire. Well you turn the lights all down because we're in restricted area so we can do that, and there's lights on that you can only see if you're on night-vsion goggles so the other airplanes can see us but nobody else can se us. Then you go zinging at it and right when you get to the campfire you pull the airplane into the vertical, you stroke the afterburners, you let them light off, you count to three and pull them off and then you just go away. Instant UFO reporting. "I'm sitting out in the desert, it's all quite and all of a sudden there's a roar[?], there's lights in the sky, and they go away and it's gone!" Rogan: So you would do that just to fuck with campers? Fravor: Yes.

YeBanKo 3y ago
I watched the interview in the entirety. It basically him explaining why 99.99% of all the sightings can’t be trusted. He explains how some real but weird sighting can be explained with narrow expertise. He is not just experienced, he was one of the top fighter pilots at that time. One thing is to fuck with campers and ufo “enthusiasts”, another is to go on record and testify before congress.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  He wasn't describing only what other pilots have done, but what he has done. He flatly admits that he has a sick sense of humor which manifests as pranking people into believing they've seen UFOs. The number of people ever convicted of perjury for lying to Congress is tiny, and in this case particularly it would be very easy for him to fall back on 'I believe I saw what I saw!' Saying it under oath to Congress confers zero credibility to me. It's no more meaningful than saying it to Joe Rogan.
  - haswell 3y ago
    What I don’t agree with is the implication that a willingness to play pranks automatically equates to a willingness to lie to congress/the American people. As a thought experiment, imagine for a moment that these UAPs are real phenomena and of non-human origin. Given the pop culture behaviors about UFOs - specifically those of skepticism and rolling one’s eyes at true believers - it’s not hard to imagine that this would be considered funny, and ultimately harmless (even if ill advised). Now he’s flying a mission and see presumably the real thing. “Shiiiit, nobody’s going to believe me now after those pranks”. Could he be fabricating all of this? Or at least intentionally sharing misleading information? Possibly. But it’s also not hard to imagine a completely earnest version of this playing out. I just don’t see the direct connection between the prior behavior and this public testimony.
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      I'm one of the top forest rangers in America. I am a trained and experienced forest observer, so when I tell you that I've seen bigfoot, you know I have a lot of credibility. Now, I know what you're thinking, lots of people have hoaxed bigfoot sightings before. That is true, in fact I myself once rented a gorilla suit and pranced around in the woods pranking campers. With my suit on I turned off my flashlight and ran up to their campfire OOKing and EEKing, then ran back off into the trees. Instant bigfoot sighting. I have a sick sense of humor like that. Anyway, I tell you this so that you know I understand most bigfoot sightings aren't real, but I'm telling you now that I did see bigfoot for real! I swear it on my mum's life. Why, I'll even swear it to a room fool of politicians.