4 ms·

Weirdly, Bigalow is also Ron DeSantis's biggest financial backer. For some odd reason, the Pentagon and certain corners of the Republican party really want you

Weirdly, Bigalow is also Ron DeSantis's biggest financial backer. For some odd reason, the Pentagon and certain corners of the Republican party really want you to believe in UFOs.

pengaru 3y ago
Religion, faith, UFOs, paranormal b.s., these are all variants of willfully believing fiction as reality. I don't think it takes much imagination to see how a public indoctrinated with the above are beneficial to those seeking power and influence through lies and deceit. Critical thinkers are a con-man's kryptonite.
- throwanem 3y ago
  It also doesn't take much to see how a strain of smugly hostile and contemptuous skepticism plays the same game from the other side. The "New Atheists", so called, have a good deal to answer for in this.
  - DropInIn 3y ago
    Defaulting to "prove it" is not anything anyone needs to "answer for".... Otherwise you're demanding that we accept every ridiculous idea that comes up... literally demanding people take suggestions of "Jewish space lasers causing fires in BC" and "the earth isnt real its just a TV show stage for aliens and the catholic church are thier partners" as legitimate possibilities rather than the highlt improbable, if not impossible, insanity they are....
    - throwanem 3y ago
      I don't believe I have asked anyone to answer for wanting claims to be backed by evidence.
      - DropInIn 3y ago
        Then what you wrote was very poorly constructed because that's exactly how I read it...
        throwanem 3y ago
        Perhaps you'd explain how I could have been clearer, then. If I'd meant to indict all skepticism, why use so many adjectives? Or do you struggle under the misapprehension that there's no way to do skepticism without needlessly being a jerk about it?
  - Yoric 3y ago
    How so? (asking as someone who has been involved in rationalism-related activities)
    - canadianfella 3y ago
      [dead]
    - throwanem 3y ago
      Being an asshole to people about things that matter deeply to them isn't convincing. Neither is the obvious public self-gratification such behavior constitutes. And too, it hardly helps advance one's cause to comport oneself in such a way that people who otherwise agree with you find themselves risking embarrassment by the association. That's not a problem rationalism in the contemporary meaning really has, although I'm not sure this constitutes an improvement on net over its predecessor movement given how much the gloss of scientism tends to make its flights of fancy look more worth taking seriously than they deserve.
      - sph 3y ago
        Sorry, that's not good enough. Atheists aren't burning down churches. Atheists aren't throwing eggs at Christians. Atheists aren't bullying young indoctrinated children, nor are Christians, members of the largest religious group in the world, being persecuted by the big atheist conspiracy. So any cry that we should be nicer to you and not roll our eyes when we get into this topic is literally what someone calls "being a snowflake." I know it is hard to understand in this age of politically correct culture wars, but it is possible to have an harmonious society with disagreement of opinion. But if someone starts to cry "help, help, I'm being repressed!" because someone makes fun of your supernatural being, that goes out the window.
        throwanem 3y ago
        After growing up gay in rural Mississippi, there is really nothing you can tell me about being oppressed by Christians. I would just prefer your movement's tactics to have been slightly less incompetent back when there might actually have been some chance of accomplishing anything. That's been a long time ago now, of course. I said the same then, to much the same level of vitriol in response. At this point I really believe that it's more about behaving this way for the sake of it than about trying to accomplish any kind of real change.
  - canadianfella 3y ago
    [dead]
  - sph 3y ago
    You can say atheist are smug, hostile, but in more serious circles one needs extraordinary proof if they have extraordinary claim. Now, one can believe whatever they want, this is a free world, but I don't want to hear anyone playing the victim either because someone doesn't give a rat's arse about UFOs, lizardmen or God. Right to belief comes to right to being criticised, and well, being laughed at. If that's too much to handle, just keep it to yourself.
    - throwanem 3y ago
      Yeah, and how's that kind of attitude been working out for you, over the last couple decades of trying to change the public conversation in America?
      - sph 3y ago
        1. Not my problem, I am not in America. 2. I am not trying to change any bloody thing. I just don't believe in God. No need to turn this into a political debate. I'd rather discuss religion in that case. 3. I believe in free speech. No one is taking your rights away here, you're free to do whatever you want as am I. If the fact that I have another opinion than you, then my friend, what you're looking for is an echo chamber, not a discussion with strangers.
        throwanem 3y ago
        A moment ago you seemed awfully anxious to defend a movement and a style of behavior, both of which I took care to specify by name and close description respectively. Now you disclaim both? I don't know who you're arguing with, but apparently it is not me.
        mcpackieh 3y ago
        > A moment ago you seemed awfully anxious to defend a movement and a style of behavior Can you quote his defense of a style of behavior? I scrolled up and I'm not seeing it. FWIW, I am not religious but I personally oppose anti-theism and the antagonistic sort of atheist advocacy.
- SimbaOnSteroids 3y ago
  One of those things should exist given everything we know about the universe, and its kinda weird that it doesn't seem to.

Weirdly, Bigalow is also Ron DeSantis's biggest financial backer. For some odd reason, the Pentagon and certain corners of the Republican party really want you to believe in UFOs.

pengaru 3y ago

Religion, faith, UFOs, paranormal b.s., these are all variants of willfully believing fiction as reality. I don't think it takes much imagination to see how a public indoctrinated with the above are beneficial to those seeking power and influence through lies and deceit. Critical thinkers are a con-man's kryptonite.

throwanem 3y ago
It also doesn't take much to see how a strain of smugly hostile and contemptuous skepticism plays the same game from the other side. The "New Atheists", so called, have a good deal to answer for in this.
- DropInIn 3y ago
  Defaulting to "prove it" is not anything anyone needs to "answer for".... Otherwise you're demanding that we accept every ridiculous idea that comes up... literally demanding people take suggestions of "Jewish space lasers causing fires in BC" and "the earth isnt real its just a TV show stage for aliens and the catholic church are thier partners" as legitimate possibilities rather than the highlt improbable, if not impossible, insanity they are....
  - throwanem 3y ago
    I don't believe I have asked anyone to answer for wanting claims to be backed by evidence.
    - DropInIn 3y ago
      Then what you wrote was very poorly constructed because that's exactly how I read it...
      - throwanem 3y ago
        Perhaps you'd explain how I could have been clearer, then. If I'd meant to indict all skepticism, why use so many adjectives? Or do you struggle under the misapprehension that there's no way to do skepticism without needlessly being a jerk about it?
- Yoric 3y ago
  How so? (asking as someone who has been involved in rationalism-related activities)
  - canadianfella 3y ago
    [dead]
  - throwanem 3y ago
    Being an asshole to people about things that matter deeply to them isn't convincing. Neither is the obvious public self-gratification such behavior constitutes. And too, it hardly helps advance one's cause to comport oneself in such a way that people who otherwise agree with you find themselves risking embarrassment by the association. That's not a problem rationalism in the contemporary meaning really has, although I'm not sure this constitutes an improvement on net over its predecessor movement given how much the gloss of scientism tends to make its flights of fancy look more worth taking seriously than they deserve.
    - sph 3y ago
      Sorry, that's not good enough. Atheists aren't burning down churches. Atheists aren't throwing eggs at Christians. Atheists aren't bullying young indoctrinated children, nor are Christians, members of the largest religious group in the world, being persecuted by the big atheist conspiracy. So any cry that we should be nicer to you and not roll our eyes when we get into this topic is literally what someone calls "being a snowflake." I know it is hard to understand in this age of politically correct culture wars, but it is possible to have an harmonious society with disagreement of opinion. But if someone starts to cry "help, help, I'm being repressed!" because someone makes fun of your supernatural being, that goes out the window.
      - throwanem 3y ago
        After growing up gay in rural Mississippi, there is really nothing you can tell me about being oppressed by Christians. I would just prefer your movement's tactics to have been slightly less incompetent back when there might actually have been some chance of accomplishing anything. That's been a long time ago now, of course. I said the same then, to much the same level of vitriol in response. At this point I really believe that it's more about behaving this way for the sake of it than about trying to accomplish any kind of real change.
- canadianfella 3y ago
  [dead]
- sph 3y ago
  You can say atheist are smug, hostile, but in more serious circles one needs extraordinary proof if they have extraordinary claim. Now, one can believe whatever they want, this is a free world, but I don't want to hear anyone playing the victim either because someone doesn't give a rat's arse about UFOs, lizardmen or God. Right to belief comes to right to being criticised, and well, being laughed at. If that's too much to handle, just keep it to yourself.
  - throwanem 3y ago
    Yeah, and how's that kind of attitude been working out for you, over the last couple decades of trying to change the public conversation in America?
    - sph 3y ago
      1. Not my problem, I am not in America. 2. I am not trying to change any bloody thing. I just don't believe in God. No need to turn this into a political debate. I'd rather discuss religion in that case. 3. I believe in free speech. No one is taking your rights away here, you're free to do whatever you want as am I. If the fact that I have another opinion than you, then my friend, what you're looking for is an echo chamber, not a discussion with strangers.
      - throwanem 3y ago
        A moment ago you seemed awfully anxious to defend a movement and a style of behavior, both of which I took care to specify by name and close description respectively. Now you disclaim both? I don't know who you're arguing with, but apparently it is not me.
        mcpackieh 3y ago
        > A moment ago you seemed awfully anxious to defend a movement and a style of behavior Can you quote his defense of a style of behavior? I scrolled up and I'm not seeing it. FWIW, I am not religious but I personally oppose anti-theism and the antagonistic sort of atheist advocacy.
SimbaOnSteroids 3y ago
One of those things should exist given everything we know about the universe, and its kinda weird that it doesn't seem to.