6 ms·

Education is by far the biggest factor. Do you think most republicans would be voting against abortion, to ignore climate change, to let the rich pay less taxes

Education is by far the biggest factor. Do you think most republicans would be voting against abortion, to ignore climate change, to let the rich pay less taxes etc if they were educated? There's a reason it's mainly non college educated voters who vote that party.

logicchains 3y ago
> Do you think most republicans would be voting against abortion, to ignore climate change, to let the rich pay less taxes etc Opinions on abortion and taxes are entirely moral judgements, so if the university system is swaying its graduates' opinions regarding them, this confirms what its critics say: that the system is a form of indoctrination.
- kgwxd 3y ago
  Morals are learned like everything else. Nothing is entirely a moral judgment (especially taxes?). “indoctrination” is just flat out the wrong word. Being presented facts and views from different angles then reaching the same conclusion most other people reach isn’t “indoctrination”, it’s just education.
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  Opinions on abortion can be moral judgements, but allowing abortion is objectively the better option, since it's going to happen regardless. Not to mention separation of church and state being a thing.
  - Shaanie 3y ago
    I'm also pro-choice, but this argument isn't very convincing to me. We don't apply the same logic to murder, theft or even drugs, so why apply it to abortion?
    - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
      Because we've seen what happens. We have history to rely on. Do you really want to force women to go back to using coat hangers and underground clinics? Not to mention the medical issues that pop up where it should be explicitly legal, like with young teenage girls or rape victims.
      - mensetmanusman 3y ago
        We have seen what happens when any vice is made illegal. People use dirty needles to inject themselves with drugs/HIV, sex trafficking, overprescription of opioids, PC viruses from torrent websites. Illegality never stops everything, it’s just some subset of embodied ideals.
    - n4r9 3y ago
      One difference is that abortion is verifiably more dangerous when it's illegal, since the mother's health is put at much great risk. Murder is just as dangerous either way. For drugs there actually is a strong argument for applying the same logic to legalise and regulate them, as it may well reduce harm.
- HWR_14 3y ago
  Opinions of abortion can be moral judgements. There aren't really many moral arguments about taxation. Or at least I don't know of any.
adamsb6 3y ago
These are matters of values, not empirical matters. There's no research or experiments to perform to reveal how to weigh the needs of the pregnant and unborn, or what balance to strike between economic growth and increased temperatures, or how much redistribution there ought to be.
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  They are empirical in practice, regardless of people's opinions. We know it is better to allow abortion for example, because it's going to happen regardless, and making it illegal only makes things worse for everybody.
rayiner 3y ago
That's been the GOP platform forever, but non-college educated people have preferred the Democratic Party until recently.
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  I'd guess that's due to self-education being more possible now than ever. Also the GOP has continued to become increasingly embarrassing.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    That would work the other way—with non-college educated people becoming more democrat. Instead, you see the opposite: college educated people becoming more democrat after historically favoring republicans, and non-college educated people becoming more Republican after historically favoring democrats. Also, on the issues you mention (abortion and taxes) the GOP is more moderate than before. Trump is the first GOP candidate ever to oppose total abortion bans. He also was the first to take entitlement reform off the table.
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - rayiner 3y ago
        That explanation doesn’t make sense. DeSantis didn’t particularly campaign on socialism, and won Puerto Ricans, who don’t have any historical aversion to socialism: https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/politics/elections/2022/11/09/ron-desantis-better-among-florida-hispanics-than-donald-trump/8316662001 https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/politics/elections/20.... It also doesn’t make sense because the GOP has been messaging to Florida Hispanics on socialism for decades. But the group with the strongest anti-socialist beliefs, Cubans, are mostly second generation now and that messaging isn’t as powerful. Obama narrowly won Cubans in 2012, with 53%. A decade later, DeSantis won them with 68%. The third reason your theory doesn’t make sense is that the most educated Hispanic groups most strongly favor republicans (at least in Florida, which has the most well developed GOP messaging to Hispanics). 40% of Cubans have a college degree, double the average for Hispanics. For Puerto Ricans it’s 30%. The exact opposite is a likelier explanation. Prevailing academic theories of race—where Hispanics are lumped together with black people as oppressed “people of color”—are offensive to many Hispanics. Cubans came to America (mostly, to Reagan’s America) in poverty, and within a generation achieved parity with whites. Why would they respond positively to Democrats’ messaging on race?

logicchains 3y ago

> Do you think most republicans would be voting against abortion, to ignore climate change, to let the rich pay less taxes etc Opinions on abortion and taxes are entirely moral judgements, so if the university system is swaying its graduates' opinions regarding them, this confirms what its critics say: that the system is a form of indoctrination.

kgwxd 3y ago
Morals are learned like everything else. Nothing is entirely a moral judgment (especially taxes?). “indoctrination” is just flat out the wrong word. Being presented facts and views from different angles then reaching the same conclusion most other people reach isn’t “indoctrination”, it’s just education.
PrimeMcFly 3y ago
Opinions on abortion can be moral judgements, but allowing abortion is objectively the better option, since it's going to happen regardless. Not to mention separation of church and state being a thing.
- Shaanie 3y ago
  I'm also pro-choice, but this argument isn't very convincing to me. We don't apply the same logic to murder, theft or even drugs, so why apply it to abortion?
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    Because we've seen what happens. We have history to rely on. Do you really want to force women to go back to using coat hangers and underground clinics? Not to mention the medical issues that pop up where it should be explicitly legal, like with young teenage girls or rape victims.
    - mensetmanusman 3y ago
      We have seen what happens when any vice is made illegal. People use dirty needles to inject themselves with drugs/HIV, sex trafficking, overprescription of opioids, PC viruses from torrent websites. Illegality never stops everything, it’s just some subset of embodied ideals.
  - n4r9 3y ago
    One difference is that abortion is verifiably more dangerous when it's illegal, since the mother's health is put at much great risk. Murder is just as dangerous either way. For drugs there actually is a strong argument for applying the same logic to legalise and regulate them, as it may well reduce harm.
HWR_14 3y ago
Opinions of abortion can be moral judgements. There aren't really many moral arguments about taxation. Or at least I don't know of any.

adamsb6 3y ago

These are matters of values, not empirical matters. There's no research or experiments to perform to reveal how to weigh the needs of the pregnant and unborn, or what balance to strike between economic growth and increased temperatures, or how much redistribution there ought to be.

PrimeMcFly 3y ago
They are empirical in practice, regardless of people's opinions. We know it is better to allow abortion for example, because it's going to happen regardless, and making it illegal only makes things worse for everybody.

rayiner 3y ago

That's been the GOP platform forever, but non-college educated people have preferred the Democratic Party until recently.

PrimeMcFly 3y ago
I'd guess that's due to self-education being more possible now than ever. Also the GOP has continued to become increasingly embarrassing.
- rayiner 3y ago
  That would work the other way—with non-college educated people becoming more democrat. Instead, you see the opposite: college educated people becoming more democrat after historically favoring republicans, and non-college educated people becoming more Republican after historically favoring democrats. Also, on the issues you mention (abortion and taxes) the GOP is more moderate than before. Trump is the first GOP candidate ever to oppose total abortion bans. He also was the first to take entitlement reform off the table.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - rayiner 3y ago
      That explanation doesn’t make sense. DeSantis didn’t particularly campaign on socialism, and won Puerto Ricans, who don’t have any historical aversion to socialism: https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/politics/elections/2022/11/09/ron-desantis-better-among-florida-hispanics-than-donald-trump/8316662001 https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/politics/elections/20.... It also doesn’t make sense because the GOP has been messaging to Florida Hispanics on socialism for decades. But the group with the strongest anti-socialist beliefs, Cubans, are mostly second generation now and that messaging isn’t as powerful. Obama narrowly won Cubans in 2012, with 53%. A decade later, DeSantis won them with 68%. The third reason your theory doesn’t make sense is that the most educated Hispanic groups most strongly favor republicans (at least in Florida, which has the most well developed GOP messaging to Hispanics). 40% of Cubans have a college degree, double the average for Hispanics. For Puerto Ricans it’s 30%. The exact opposite is a likelier explanation. Prevailing academic theories of race—where Hispanics are lumped together with black people as oppressed “people of color”—are offensive to many Hispanics. Cubans came to America (mostly, to Reagan’s America) in poverty, and within a generation achieved parity with whites. Why would they respond positively to Democrats’ messaging on race?