4 ms·

> How does that work? Minutes read? It's based on the number of words read, not minutes. It can't be pure junk, or people wouldn't be reading enough of it to

> How does that work? Minutes read? It's based on the number of words read, not minutes. It can't be pure junk, or people wouldn't be reading enough of it to make it climb the charts.

llm_nerd 3y ago
Ah, okay that is interesting. https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G201541130 https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G201541130 I don't think this "book" filled the pages with loren ipsum, but it is entirely possible that they fed all of the available news stories into a language model such that someone actually sat there page flipping through chapters of decorated text. But ultimately I think there is a stark difference between someone who actually paid $7 for an ebook, and someone who downloaded something on Kindle Unlimited and flipped through it. I am curious how KU influences the best seller charts numerically, which I can't find a clarification of.
mikro2nd 3y ago
How hard would it be to write a script that downloads books and "reads" them -- i.e. exercises the Kindle app (say on a desktop-alike) -- giving Amazon plausible excuse to say "n words read"? Point being: if there's a way to game a system, people will game that system.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  > giving Amazon plausible excuse to say "n words read"? Amazon wouldn't do that because that would cost them more money (the payout to authors is based on that). The authors would have an incentive to do that, but Amazon does their best to prevent it (again, because it costs them money). I suspect that anything that rises to the best-seller level gets examined by Amazon very closely.
  - ornornor 3y ago
    > I suspect that anything that rises to the best-seller level gets examined by Amazon very closely. I think you’re vastly overestimating how much Amazon cares. See their physical goods store: it’s also a race to the bottom with zero oversight whatsoever (commingling, counterfeits, used/returned/dirty items sold as new…) I don’t see why the virtual books store would be any different. Amazon wrote the proverbial book on enshitification/race to the bottom :(
    - Turing_Machine 3y ago
      > I think you’re vastly overestimating how much Amazon cares. They care because every fake Kindle Unlimited read comes out of Amazon's pocket. Directly. That's entirely different from the situation with counterfeit merchandise, where Amazon gets its cut anyway.
jsheard 3y ago
That's assuming it is actual people reading it, and not just click fraud. Amazon has been battling that for years, books filled with literal gibberish reach the top few hundred titles in a category and the only reasonable explanation is that some group(s) are gaming the system by buying/phishing Kindle Unlimited subscriptions then skimming through their own "books" to turn a profit. https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7b774/ai-generated-books-of-nonsense-are-all-over-amazons-bestseller-lists https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7b774/ai-generated-books-of... Using LLMs to make the books vaguely coherent instead of meaningless word salad adds a layer of plausible deniability which might make Amazon slower to notice what's going on.
- pseudo0 3y ago
  It seems like a kind of strange strategy for click fraud. A KU subscription is $10, Amazon takes a 30% cut, and for $700 a month you would need 100 KU bots with unique accounts and payment info.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - fredophile 3y ago
    What does 100 stolen credit card numbers cost?

> How does that work? Minutes read? It's based on the number of words read, not minutes. It can't be pure junk, or people wouldn't be reading enough of it to make it climb the charts.

llm_nerd 3y ago

Ah, okay that is interesting. https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G201541130 https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G201541130 I don't think this "book" filled the pages with loren ipsum, but it is entirely possible that they fed all of the available news stories into a language model such that someone actually sat there page flipping through chapters of decorated text. But ultimately I think there is a stark difference between someone who actually paid $7 for an ebook, and someone who downloaded something on Kindle Unlimited and flipped through it. I am curious how KU influences the best seller charts numerically, which I can't find a clarification of.

mikro2nd 3y ago

How hard would it be to write a script that downloads books and "reads" them -- i.e. exercises the Kindle app (say on a desktop-alike) -- giving Amazon plausible excuse to say "n words read"? Point being: if there's a way to game a system, people will game that system.

Turing_Machine 3y ago
> giving Amazon plausible excuse to say "n words read"? Amazon wouldn't do that because that would cost them more money (the payout to authors is based on that). The authors would have an incentive to do that, but Amazon does their best to prevent it (again, because it costs them money). I suspect that anything that rises to the best-seller level gets examined by Amazon very closely.
- ornornor 3y ago
  > I suspect that anything that rises to the best-seller level gets examined by Amazon very closely. I think you’re vastly overestimating how much Amazon cares. See their physical goods store: it’s also a race to the bottom with zero oversight whatsoever (commingling, counterfeits, used/returned/dirty items sold as new…) I don’t see why the virtual books store would be any different. Amazon wrote the proverbial book on enshitification/race to the bottom :(
  - Turing_Machine 3y ago
    > I think you’re vastly overestimating how much Amazon cares. They care because every fake Kindle Unlimited read comes out of Amazon's pocket. Directly. That's entirely different from the situation with counterfeit merchandise, where Amazon gets its cut anyway.

jsheard 3y ago

That's assuming it is actual people reading it, and not just click fraud. Amazon has been battling that for years, books filled with literal gibberish reach the top few hundred titles in a category and the only reasonable explanation is that some group(s) are gaming the system by buying/phishing Kindle Unlimited subscriptions then skimming through their own "books" to turn a profit. https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7b774/ai-generated-books-of-nonsense-are-all-over-amazons-bestseller-lists https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7b774/ai-generated-books-of... Using LLMs to make the books vaguely coherent instead of meaningless word salad adds a layer of plausible deniability which might make Amazon slower to notice what's going on.

pseudo0 3y ago
It seems like a kind of strange strategy for click fraud. A KU subscription is $10, Amazon takes a 30% cut, and for $700 a month you would need 100 KU bots with unique accounts and payment info.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- fredophile 3y ago
  What does 100 stolen credit card numbers cost?