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The Netherlands became a post religious society in a single generation. It wasn't education, it wasn't ideology. It was materialism. Capitalism responded to ris

The Netherlands became a post religious society in a single generation. It wasn't education, it wasn't ideology. It was materialism. Capitalism responded to rising wages with entertainment and leisure. Sunday became fun day.

smokel 3y ago
Materialism could have taken over thousands of years before, so I don't think this reasoning makes sense. What seems more likely (to me) is that due to advancements in transport and information technology people increasingly learned about different world religions, and did the math. If there is only one God, how can other people worship a different one who is also the only one? Also, religion started to fade during The Enlightenment, and things took a little while to completely crumble.
- supazek 3y ago
  You think people didn’t know about other gods until they could drive? Technology gives people corn syrup and adderall while religion can’t fix a toothache. People increasingly believe this means that one is better than another or that they are even attempting to solve the same problems and must be exclusively selected. And Science is just as much a religion as Christianity or any other religion at this point. “Trust the Science”, “I Believe Science is Real”, “Science is True Whether You Believe in it or Not”
  - smokel 3y ago
    I don't fully understand the point you are trying to make, and how science plays a role in this discussion. Apart from this diversion, I do think people heard about other gods alright, but communities used to be quite isolated. It has been possible to collectively ignore other religions for centuries. Technological developments in transport and information distribution, such as the printing press, may have made it increasingly harder to keep a lid on the group think. Seems like a reasonable argument, no?
monlockandkey 3y ago
Bread and circus tactics
adamsb6 3y ago
I don't believe it's as organic as all that. There were a couple of very important figures in setting up the idea that there was any conflict at all between faith and science. John William Draper and Andrew Dickson White: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_thesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_thesis They also promulgated plenty of verifiably false information. The popular misconception that pre-Columbian Europeans thought the world to be flat is attributable to these two. They also spread ahistorical claims that the Catholic Church was broadly opposed to science and forbade human dissection. White was Cornell's first president, and his book, "A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom," was influential among the public and academics. Much of it had been serialized earlier as articles in Popular Science Monthly, now the magazine known as Popular Science. In addition to popularizing the idea of an inherent conflict between faith and science, Draper had theories on the causes of the American Civil War. He attributed it to climate and its influence on the personalities of the people who reside in those climates. He proposed building more north-south railroads as a preventative measure.
bitsage 3y ago
I agree. Here in the US, and western world at large, we’re even seeing a rise in astrology, paganism, and Wicca corresponding with the decline of the Abrahamic religions. Some just started to ditch inconvenient beliefs.

smokel 3y ago

Materialism could have taken over thousands of years before, so I don't think this reasoning makes sense. What seems more likely (to me) is that due to advancements in transport and information technology people increasingly learned about different world religions, and did the math. If there is only one God, how can other people worship a different one who is also the only one? Also, religion started to fade during The Enlightenment, and things took a little while to completely crumble.

supazek 3y ago
You think people didn’t know about other gods until they could drive? Technology gives people corn syrup and adderall while religion can’t fix a toothache. People increasingly believe this means that one is better than another or that they are even attempting to solve the same problems and must be exclusively selected. And Science is just as much a religion as Christianity or any other religion at this point. “Trust the Science”, “I Believe Science is Real”, “Science is True Whether You Believe in it or Not”
- smokel 3y ago
  I don't fully understand the point you are trying to make, and how science plays a role in this discussion. Apart from this diversion, I do think people heard about other gods alright, but communities used to be quite isolated. It has been possible to collectively ignore other religions for centuries. Technological developments in transport and information distribution, such as the printing press, may have made it increasingly harder to keep a lid on the group think. Seems like a reasonable argument, no?

monlockandkey 3y ago

Bread and circus tactics

adamsb6 3y ago

I don't believe it's as organic as all that. There were a couple of very important figures in setting up the idea that there was any conflict at all between faith and science. John William Draper and Andrew Dickson White: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_thesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_thesis They also promulgated plenty of verifiably false information. The popular misconception that pre-Columbian Europeans thought the world to be flat is attributable to these two. They also spread ahistorical claims that the Catholic Church was broadly opposed to science and forbade human dissection. White was Cornell's first president, and his book, "A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom," was influential among the public and academics. Much of it had been serialized earlier as articles in Popular Science Monthly, now the magazine known as Popular Science. In addition to popularizing the idea of an inherent conflict between faith and science, Draper had theories on the causes of the American Civil War. He attributed it to climate and its influence on the personalities of the people who reside in those climates. He proposed building more north-south railroads as a preventative measure.

bitsage 3y ago

I agree. Here in the US, and western world at large, we’re even seeing a rise in astrology, paganism, and Wicca corresponding with the decline of the Abrahamic religions. Some just started to ditch inconvenient beliefs.