3 ms·

You forgot those who say they want to live in a home and trash it the very next day. There are people who make the most caring bleeding-heart volunteers give up

You forgot those who say they want to live in a home and trash it the very next day. There are people who make the most caring bleeding-heart volunteers give up.

noelwelsh 3y ago
Right. This is why you can't have an effective program that just says "here's a house, have fun!" You need to address the issues that cause people to act like that, preferrably before the issues actually happen. Prevention is much easier than cure, particularly for behavioural problems. In other words, homelessness is very often not a root problem but a symptom of other underlying problems.
- jlawson 3y ago
  What about that large group of people whose problems are not solvable by your social systems and technology? The ones you can't fix, because humans aren't infinitely moldable. What's your policy towards them?
  - noelwelsh 3y ago
    Gosh, when I did I get appointed to this policy role? Anyway, I don't think you're conversing in good faith so I'm not going to spend much time on a response. If you really want to get into the details of what actually causes homelessness and what can be done about it, there is a lot of research (though little political will to do things that actually work here in the UK.) E.g. https://www.crisis.org.uk/ending-homelessness/ https://www.crisis.org.uk/ending-homelessness/
    - jlawson 3y ago
      I am asking a question in good faith because I really don't know what you're thinking. You said that homelessness is a symptom of underlying problems, which is true, but also said, "You need to address the issues that cause people to act like that". Sure, this will work for some, but not others. I am genuinely asking what you propose to do about the people for whom this is not feasible or possible - whose underlying problems we cannot address.
alt227 3y ago
My whole family have been involved in providing social care services for my entire life. What you have just said is unfortunately so true, and as far as I can see there is no solution to it at all. What do you do with the people who just want to watch the world burn? Should we as a society just put aside a huge chunk of tax money to fund clearing up after these people and accept the damage they cause, or segregate them away so they can only cause harm to each other like prisoners? Who then is given the responsibility to decide if they remain in society along with the rest of the population? This is serious stuff which no government wants to touch with a 10 ft pole. When you go down this train of thought it gets pretty dystopian pretty fast. So far we have used the law to judge these people and their actions. But when mental health and poor upbringing is considered, the law is an extremely blunt tool for the job.

You forgot those who say they want to live in a home and trash it the very next day. There are people who make the most caring bleeding-heart volunteers give up.

noelwelsh 3y ago

Right. This is why you can't have an effective program that just says "here's a house, have fun!" You need to address the issues that cause people to act like that, preferrably before the issues actually happen. Prevention is much easier than cure, particularly for behavioural problems. In other words, homelessness is very often not a root problem but a symptom of other underlying problems.

jlawson 3y ago
What about that large group of people whose problems are not solvable by your social systems and technology? The ones you can't fix, because humans aren't infinitely moldable. What's your policy towards them?
- noelwelsh 3y ago
  Gosh, when I did I get appointed to this policy role? Anyway, I don't think you're conversing in good faith so I'm not going to spend much time on a response. If you really want to get into the details of what actually causes homelessness and what can be done about it, there is a lot of research (though little political will to do things that actually work here in the UK.) E.g. https://www.crisis.org.uk/ending-homelessness/ https://www.crisis.org.uk/ending-homelessness/
  - jlawson 3y ago
    I am asking a question in good faith because I really don't know what you're thinking. You said that homelessness is a symptom of underlying problems, which is true, but also said, "You need to address the issues that cause people to act like that". Sure, this will work for some, but not others. I am genuinely asking what you propose to do about the people for whom this is not feasible or possible - whose underlying problems we cannot address.

alt227 3y ago

My whole family have been involved in providing social care services for my entire life. What you have just said is unfortunately so true, and as far as I can see there is no solution to it at all. What do you do with the people who just want to watch the world burn? Should we as a society just put aside a huge chunk of tax money to fund clearing up after these people and accept the damage they cause, or segregate them away so they can only cause harm to each other like prisoners? Who then is given the responsibility to decide if they remain in society along with the rest of the population? This is serious stuff which no government wants to touch with a 10 ft pole. When you go down this train of thought it gets pretty dystopian pretty fast. So far we have used the law to judge these people and their actions. But when mental health and poor upbringing is considered, the law is an extremely blunt tool for the job.