7 ms·

In the US, this all comes down to the Reagan era decision to stop funding asylums. The mentally handicapped used to receive treatment, now they are forced onto

In the US, this all comes down to the Reagan era decision to stop funding asylums. The mentally handicapped used to receive treatment, now they are forced onto the street.

ransackdev 3y ago
> The mentally handicapped used to receive treatment I think you meant to say “used to be locked up”
- jojobas 3y ago
  Provided with shelter? Check. There's only so much you can do, no brain debugger+hot patcher invented yet.
  - gattilorenz 3y ago
    It’s not a binary choice between living on the street and mandatory internment in something that resembles a prison, which is what I suspect was happening earlier. Other countries solve it by having protected communities, with more or less supervision and independence depending on the condition.
    - jlawson 3y ago
      What do those communities look like for people whose "condition" is the worst? The ones who won't accept treatment but desperately need it, and are a danger to themselves and others.
- raverbashing 3y ago
  It's hard for some to accept that yes, some people do need in-patient mental care and possibly for an extended period of time "prayer" or "social support" or whatever isn't a substitute for IV anti-psychotics Yes there was abuse, and yes that should have been curbed.
  - ransackdev 3y ago
    But it wasn't curbed. Unless I’m way out of the loop, there are still facilities for extreme cases, no? I think the difference is that patients cannot be detained there against their will, vs asylums were full of people who wanted to leave, after being forced there by someone else, and being treated like shit every step of the way
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      It's so much better now that these people receive treatment on the street, you can tell they are being treated because of all the hypodermic needles they leave laying around that formerly contained medcine.
      - ransackdev 3y ago
        I thought we were talking about mentally ill people, not drug users. The two are not mutually exclusive. You’re not necessarily mentally ill if you shoot dope, and shooting dope isn’t only done by mentally ill people. This is part of the problem. People think that homeless people are all drug users, and that’s not accidental. I bet if you ended up on the street, couldn’t get a leg up to get off the street, you might eventually turn to drugs to help forget that you’ve been abandoned by society and a government that will bail out car companies and banks but won’t establish better systems to get people up and running again.
      - morelisp 3y ago
        Comments like this definitely give the impression you're serious about making sure institutionalization is reintroduced for the benefit of the few patients needing intense interventions and not just out of concern for your fucking property values.
  - jdietrich 3y ago
    >It's hard for some to accept that yes, some people do need in-patient mental care and possibly for an extended period of time Some people, yes, but an incredibly small minority. The vast majority of people with severe and enduring mental illness can be managed perfectly well in the community if you have adequate community-based mental healthcare provision. The choice between asylums and people fending for themselves on the streets is a false dichotomy. >"prayer" or "social support" or whatever isn't a substitute for IV anti-psychotics We have a wide range of long-acting injectable antipsychotics that can be administered on a fortnightly or monthly basis. You do not need to lock someone up indefinitely in order to administer an injection once every few weeks. Some people will inevitably need to be compelled into treatment, but that number is much smaller if a) you have a mental healthcare workforce who have the time and training to establish rapport and build trust with patients and b) you use early intervention to reach people before they are in crisis.
boppo1 3y ago
I thought asylums were by-and-large just hellholes we locked people up in. I have no source, but my impression was that for every one person adequately treated, there were 20-30 that were neglected or horribly abused, like having all their teeth removed.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  Some of them were One Flew/titicut follies yes. I don't think that means they should all be closed though, they should've been fixed.
tenpies 3y ago
To say it "comes down" to Reagan seems highly revisionist in nature. After all, a quick trip across the border to Canada reveals they are having the same exactly issues - possibly worst given that the Trudeau government seems determined on growing the population at absurd rates, no matter what. I think the key things we've seen that have hyper-accelerated the trent have been: * The introduction of fentanyl to the West * The lockdowns * "Progressive" policies to be hyper-empathetic on criminals At this stage no amount of asylums will put Humpty Dumpty together again. We would actually need a criminal system and society that is willing to have people face consequences - and that is currently a "far right" idea as far as the Woke West is concerned.
- watwut 3y ago
  The US was never hyper-empathetic on criminals. Like, it is country with largest incarceration rates, super high convictions rates and a quite long sentences. Also, a country with incredibly expensive justice system. Moreover, it is a country that keeps punishing criminals long after they left the jail with post conviction restrictions designed to make them fail.
- dorfsmay 3y ago
  Canada's and US' politicians take their ideas from the same think tanks, using them as opposites is not a good comparison. Some provinces do not use all the funds available for healthcare from the federal government. The immigration rate drastic increase is not helping, but the healthcare issues have started before.
- flangola7 3y ago
  This is rich coming from the person who thought putting sunblock on during airplane trips blocks cosmic rays

In the US, this all comes down to the Reagan era decision to stop funding asylums. The mentally handicapped used to receive treatment, now they are forced onto the street.

ransackdev 3y ago

> The mentally handicapped used to receive treatment I think you meant to say “used to be locked up”

jojobas 3y ago
Provided with shelter? Check. There's only so much you can do, no brain debugger+hot patcher invented yet.
- gattilorenz 3y ago
  It’s not a binary choice between living on the street and mandatory internment in something that resembles a prison, which is what I suspect was happening earlier. Other countries solve it by having protected communities, with more or less supervision and independence depending on the condition.
  - jlawson 3y ago
    What do those communities look like for people whose "condition" is the worst? The ones who won't accept treatment but desperately need it, and are a danger to themselves and others.
raverbashing 3y ago
It's hard for some to accept that yes, some people do need in-patient mental care and possibly for an extended period of time "prayer" or "social support" or whatever isn't a substitute for IV anti-psychotics Yes there was abuse, and yes that should have been curbed.
- ransackdev 3y ago
  But it wasn't curbed. Unless I’m way out of the loop, there are still facilities for extreme cases, no? I think the difference is that patients cannot be detained there against their will, vs asylums were full of people who wanted to leave, after being forced there by someone else, and being treated like shit every step of the way
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    It's so much better now that these people receive treatment on the street, you can tell they are being treated because of all the hypodermic needles they leave laying around that formerly contained medcine.
    - ransackdev 3y ago
      I thought we were talking about mentally ill people, not drug users. The two are not mutually exclusive. You’re not necessarily mentally ill if you shoot dope, and shooting dope isn’t only done by mentally ill people. This is part of the problem. People think that homeless people are all drug users, and that’s not accidental. I bet if you ended up on the street, couldn’t get a leg up to get off the street, you might eventually turn to drugs to help forget that you’ve been abandoned by society and a government that will bail out car companies and banks but won’t establish better systems to get people up and running again.
    - morelisp 3y ago
      Comments like this definitely give the impression you're serious about making sure institutionalization is reintroduced for the benefit of the few patients needing intense interventions and not just out of concern for your fucking property values.
- jdietrich 3y ago
  >It's hard for some to accept that yes, some people do need in-patient mental care and possibly for an extended period of time Some people, yes, but an incredibly small minority. The vast majority of people with severe and enduring mental illness can be managed perfectly well in the community if you have adequate community-based mental healthcare provision. The choice between asylums and people fending for themselves on the streets is a false dichotomy. >"prayer" or "social support" or whatever isn't a substitute for IV anti-psychotics We have a wide range of long-acting injectable antipsychotics that can be administered on a fortnightly or monthly basis. You do not need to lock someone up indefinitely in order to administer an injection once every few weeks. Some people will inevitably need to be compelled into treatment, but that number is much smaller if a) you have a mental healthcare workforce who have the time and training to establish rapport and build trust with patients and b) you use early intervention to reach people before they are in crisis.

boppo1 3y ago

I thought asylums were by-and-large just hellholes we locked people up in. I have no source, but my impression was that for every one person adequately treated, there were 20-30 that were neglected or horribly abused, like having all their teeth removed.

HDThoreaun 3y ago
Some of them were One Flew/titicut follies yes. I don't think that means they should all be closed though, they should've been fixed.

tenpies 3y ago

To say it "comes down" to Reagan seems highly revisionist in nature. After all, a quick trip across the border to Canada reveals they are having the same exactly issues - possibly worst given that the Trudeau government seems determined on growing the population at absurd rates, no matter what. I think the key things we've seen that have hyper-accelerated the trent have been: * The introduction of fentanyl to the West * The lockdowns * "Progressive" policies to be hyper-empathetic on criminals At this stage no amount of asylums will put Humpty Dumpty together again. We would actually need a criminal system and society that is willing to have people face consequences - and that is currently a "far right" idea as far as the Woke West is concerned.

watwut 3y ago
The US was never hyper-empathetic on criminals. Like, it is country with largest incarceration rates, super high convictions rates and a quite long sentences. Also, a country with incredibly expensive justice system. Moreover, it is a country that keeps punishing criminals long after they left the jail with post conviction restrictions designed to make them fail.
dorfsmay 3y ago
Canada's and US' politicians take their ideas from the same think tanks, using them as opposites is not a good comparison. Some provinces do not use all the funds available for healthcare from the federal government. The immigration rate drastic increase is not helping, but the healthcare issues have started before.
flangola7 3y ago
This is rich coming from the person who thought putting sunblock on during airplane trips blocks cosmic rays