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I have been using Debian GNU/Linux since 2006. Debian 3.1 Sarge was the first version I used. The primary reason for choosing Debian back then was the large n

by susam 3y ago

I have been using Debian GNU/Linux since 2006. Debian 3.1 Sarge was the first version I used. The primary reason for choosing Debian back then was the large number of packages it had in its package repositories. Its exceptional stability came as a bonus. Over these 17 years, I have used Debian for frontend servers, backend servers, desktop computers, personal laptops, personal virtual machines, team virtual machines, etc. I run my static HTML websites, Common Lisp web applications, ZNC IRC network bouncer, Exim4 MTA, Matrix-IRC bridging clients, etc. all on Debian. I also spin up fresh new Debian VMs to serve as clean rooms for testing my open source projects and technical guides. For example, when I published my "Lisp in Vim" article, Debian turned out to be a nice system to quickly install all the necessary packages and test out all the steps in my article thoroughly. When I write a shell script to be used across a variety of shells, I run my test suite for the script on bash, ksh, zsh, dash, posh, and yash, all of which can be easily installed on Debian. Debian has served me very well for a wide variety of activities ranging from things like software development and testing to personal digital chores like writing documents, presentations, splitting and merging PDFs, editing audio/video files, document format conversions, editing photographs, etc. and even having fun, say by raytracing with POV-Ray, running vintage DOS games on DOSBox, or recording live music from my digital piano. No matter what the nature of the problem is, the solution often begins with a simple "apt-get install" command. In all these years, I have never ever faced any problem with dependency management or package installation in the stable branch. Yes, the packages can sometimes begin to get old by a few years but the whole system remains outstandingly stable. It is a great distribution for long running servers. Debian is also quite good for a lean personal computing environment. In my opinion, the Debian stable version sets the gold standard for stability in the world of Linux distributions.

rycomb 3y ago
My favorites are Debian for servers, Arch for desktops. Debian in desktops didn't really work for me... a rolling release makes more sense.
- tuukkah 3y ago
  Debian unstable and testing are rolling releases.
  - JetSetWilly 3y ago
    They don't have the same guarantees as a real rolling release distro. My experience of SID is things randomly breaking and having to be very careful whenever you update. And because it is not a "production" intended rolling release, they don't have the same guarantees for security fixes either - they can be quite unhurried. On arch this is all much less hassle.
    - sgarland 3y ago
      IME Sid mostly causes issues if you try to cherry-pick programs or libraries from it, mostly because you get into dependency hell. I have successfully done it with aptitude’s (not apt) package solver, but it’s a pain. If you run full Sid for everything, ironically it’s more stable. That said, on my servers I just run stable and then compile anything I want that differs, and make sure it doesn’t clobber the system’s version. Like altinstall for newer Python versions. I’ve yet to have an issue this way.
      - pxc 3y ago
        > IME Sid mostly causes issues if you try to cherry-pick programs or libraries from it Instead of doing this, create a Debian Stable (or Testing, if that's what you're running) repository on OBS¹. Fork the packages you want from Debian Unstable into your repo, and let them build against your preferred Debian release. If some of them need newer deps, pull in their deps, too. Add your repository to your system and upgrade that way. Or if you're not that attached to only using DEBs, just use Nix or Guix to install newer software. -- 1: https://build.opensuse.org/ https://build.opensuse.org/
    - KennyBlanken 3y ago
      > They don't have the same guarantees as a real rolling release distro. I can guarantee my distro will bring world peace, help you lose ten pounds and get 10% better gas mileage. Unlike rolling release distros, Debian doesn't try to pretend that rolling releases are as reliable. It's exactly what it says on the tin. Both are probably equal in terms of reliability, but Debian is actually honest about what that reliability level is.
BbzzbB 3y ago
I moved to Linux last year (my T430s was unbearable with Windows, but turns out still great with Linux). Briefly tried some Arch distros (which felt like a time black hole I don't care for) and Ubuntu before settling for Debian. Partly because it seems like a pretty "pure"/minimalistic OS, because I figured it's a good OS for servers too so might as well get familiar with it and because I wanted to run i3 so wanted to avoid the "bloat" from Ubuntu (which I now realize is negligeable). While it's been serving me well, it still feels quirky and a lot of hardware stuff just didn't work out of the box so I've accumulated a fair few hacks and I dread having to butt my head against those again when this laptop inevitably craps out. Sometimes it's just finding the package you need but I also had to do a lot googling and changing speficic lines from specific config files for a bunch of things. Namely my volume buttons, mute button, Bluetooth, Bluetooth devices, recorder, brightness buttons and others I forget. My volume buttons still don't work if it's through a Bluetooth device but I'm just putting up with it cause I couldn't find an answer fast enough and on a new connect I have to explicitly go in pavucontrol (or whichever it was, "firefox no sound bluetooth debian" is seared in my search history). I never managed to get the Steam for Linux thing working and when I try again it seems to clash with the remnants of some old attempt. Maybe I just don't have enough experience and it would be the same on any Debian or Linux distro but AFAIK Ubuntu does much better at handling drivers out of the box. I like the simplicity of it at face value but I'm not sure why I wouldn't go with Ubuntu next time to avoid the hassles or if I'm not being stubborn by not going for Windows with WSL (assuming I don't buy another old horse). Worst is I still need to run a Windows VM in it when I'm compiling something to .exe or some specific Windows only software.
- Zardoz84 3y ago
  discover -> install Steam Work flawless on Debian 12
- jack-torrance 3y ago
  Debian in my opinion is best on servers which will have uptimes of months or even years on wired connections. In such setups, the hardware driver quirks were most probably solved decades ago and as a bonus you don't have to babysit the server. Just install the OS, forget about it and focus on whatever is really bringing you value. What drove you away from Arch Linux on your laptop?
TacticalCoder 3y ago
Same... Debian and derivatives everywhere, including Raspbian (now RaspiOS I think) on an army of Pi and even "RasPBX" back in the days (running Asterisk + FreePBX to power Cisco VoIP phones from a Raspberry Pi 1!) and even Devuan on two machines (a Debian fork without systemd). Well, since the nineties and Debian 1.1... > Yes, the packages can sometimes begin to get old by a few years but the whole system remains outstandingly stable. I then compile from source. I do it for Emacs notably and at time I recompiled the kernel (for example at one point I had patched MagicSysRQ and was running a kernel with a modified MagicSysRQ). Nowadays I like to use the stock, signed, Debian kernel: even if it's not a full UKI yet I like to see "SecureBoot on" (I know it's a touchy subject and I know it's not a panacea and I know I should really run a signed UKI but I haven't set that up... yet!). I don't bother to "dist-upgrade", except to go from the "hard freeze" to the stable one. Typically I re-install from scratch when a new release comes out. YMMV. Long live Debian! (and Debian shall outlive me)
jbverschoor 3y ago
Yeah I moved from Slackware to years of FreeBSD to Debian around sarge. Never looked back tbh..
ComplexSystems 3y ago
How has the difference been between using Debian and Ubuntu on personal laptops?

by susam 3y ago

rycomb 3y ago

My favorites are Debian for servers, Arch for desktops. Debian in desktops didn't really work for me... a rolling release makes more sense.

tuukkah 3y ago
Debian unstable and testing are rolling releases.
- JetSetWilly 3y ago
  They don't have the same guarantees as a real rolling release distro. My experience of SID is things randomly breaking and having to be very careful whenever you update. And because it is not a "production" intended rolling release, they don't have the same guarantees for security fixes either - they can be quite unhurried. On arch this is all much less hassle.
  - sgarland 3y ago
    IME Sid mostly causes issues if you try to cherry-pick programs or libraries from it, mostly because you get into dependency hell. I have successfully done it with aptitude’s (not apt) package solver, but it’s a pain. If you run full Sid for everything, ironically it’s more stable. That said, on my servers I just run stable and then compile anything I want that differs, and make sure it doesn’t clobber the system’s version. Like altinstall for newer Python versions. I’ve yet to have an issue this way.
    - pxc 3y ago
      > IME Sid mostly causes issues if you try to cherry-pick programs or libraries from it Instead of doing this, create a Debian Stable (or Testing, if that's what you're running) repository on OBS¹. Fork the packages you want from Debian Unstable into your repo, and let them build against your preferred Debian release. If some of them need newer deps, pull in their deps, too. Add your repository to your system and upgrade that way. Or if you're not that attached to only using DEBs, just use Nix or Guix to install newer software. -- 1: https://build.opensuse.org/ https://build.opensuse.org/
  - KennyBlanken 3y ago
    > They don't have the same guarantees as a real rolling release distro. I can guarantee my distro will bring world peace, help you lose ten pounds and get 10% better gas mileage. Unlike rolling release distros, Debian doesn't try to pretend that rolling releases are as reliable. It's exactly what it says on the tin. Both are probably equal in terms of reliability, but Debian is actually honest about what that reliability level is.

BbzzbB 3y ago

I moved to Linux last year (my T430s was unbearable with Windows, but turns out still great with Linux). Briefly tried some Arch distros (which felt like a time black hole I don't care for) and Ubuntu before settling for Debian. Partly because it seems like a pretty "pure"/minimalistic OS, because I figured it's a good OS for servers too so might as well get familiar with it and because I wanted to run i3 so wanted to avoid the "bloat" from Ubuntu (which I now realize is negligeable). While it's been serving me well, it still feels quirky and a lot of hardware stuff just didn't work out of the box so I've accumulated a fair few hacks and I dread having to butt my head against those again when this laptop inevitably craps out. Sometimes it's just finding the package you need but I also had to do a lot googling and changing speficic lines from specific config files for a bunch of things. Namely my volume buttons, mute button, Bluetooth, Bluetooth devices, recorder, brightness buttons and others I forget. My volume buttons still don't work if it's through a Bluetooth device but I'm just putting up with it cause I couldn't find an answer fast enough and on a new connect I have to explicitly go in pavucontrol (or whichever it was, "firefox no sound bluetooth debian" is seared in my search history). I never managed to get the Steam for Linux thing working and when I try again it seems to clash with the remnants of some old attempt. Maybe I just don't have enough experience and it would be the same on any Debian or Linux distro but AFAIK Ubuntu does much better at handling drivers out of the box. I like the simplicity of it at face value but I'm not sure why I wouldn't go with Ubuntu next time to avoid the hassles or if I'm not being stubborn by not going for Windows with WSL (assuming I don't buy another old horse). Worst is I still need to run a Windows VM in it when I'm compiling something to .exe or some specific Windows only software.

Zardoz84 3y ago
discover -> install Steam Work flawless on Debian 12
jack-torrance 3y ago
Debian in my opinion is best on servers which will have uptimes of months or even years on wired connections. In such setups, the hardware driver quirks were most probably solved decades ago and as a bonus you don't have to babysit the server. Just install the OS, forget about it and focus on whatever is really bringing you value. What drove you away from Arch Linux on your laptop?

TacticalCoder 3y ago

Same... Debian and derivatives everywhere, including Raspbian (now RaspiOS I think) on an army of Pi and even "RasPBX" back in the days (running Asterisk + FreePBX to power Cisco VoIP phones from a Raspberry Pi 1!) and even Devuan on two machines (a Debian fork without systemd). Well, since the nineties and Debian 1.1... > Yes, the packages can sometimes begin to get old by a few years but the whole system remains outstandingly stable. I then compile from source. I do it for Emacs notably and at time I recompiled the kernel (for example at one point I had patched MagicSysRQ and was running a kernel with a modified MagicSysRQ). Nowadays I like to use the stock, signed, Debian kernel: even if it's not a full UKI yet I like to see "SecureBoot on" (I know it's a touchy subject and I know it's not a panacea and I know I should really run a signed UKI but I haven't set that up... yet!). I don't bother to "dist-upgrade", except to go from the "hard freeze" to the stable one. Typically I re-install from scratch when a new release comes out. YMMV. Long live Debian! (and Debian shall outlive me)

jbverschoor 3y ago

Yeah I moved from Slackware to years of FreeBSD to Debian around sarge. Never looked back tbh..

ComplexSystems 3y ago

How has the difference been between using Debian and Ubuntu on personal laptops?