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> "The primary actor is a wise old man…" And that is why it is hard to call that a myth for our time. Young people’s contempt for the now-elderly generation (th

by elihu 3y ago

> "The primary actor is a wise old man…" And that is why it is hard to call that a myth for our time. Young people’s contempt for the now-elderly generation (they’re Boomers) has reached incredible heights. At the risk of making this political, our present era also has an old man who has earned the respect of younger generations by being well-informed, consistent in his views, with a strong moral compass and deeply concerned about the welfare of all people. I would argue that Bernie Sanders is the Gandalf of our times. We also have a lot of Denethors and Sarumans and Wormtounges. Our Dark Lord isn't a person, but maybe it's an ideology -- that if we can just maximize shareholder value everything will work out fine. Tolkien didn't like allegories and insisted that the ring wasn't symbolic of anything, but if it was our ring we can't bring ourselves to cast aside is fossil fuels.

Sakos 3y ago
What's changed is we've as a culture realized that age doesn't automatically bestow wisdom. A wise old man is a valuable part of culture and society. But not all old men are wise and it doesn't seem to be a function of being old. Bernie has held his beliefs for decades. He was wise when he was younger and that's persisted (or developed further with the guidance of time and experience) into his current age. Wisdom is something that has to be cultivated for a lifetime and we simply don't do that as a society or a culture. Did we ever? I'm not sure.
- elihu 3y ago
  I think there are a lot of people who still care about wisdom and try to work on it. Our popular culture and economic and political systems don't always do a good job of encouraging or valuing wisdom. I think there are probably a lot of old men and women like Bernie out there, they just aren't very visible. What's unusual about Bernie is that he's managed to become famous and is in a position of power.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > What's changed is we've as a culture realized that age doesn't automatically bestow wisdom. That's no new realization, but a continuing pattern, generation after generation. The youth of the 1960s took that idea much further than today's kids. 'Every generation thinks they invented sex.'
  - Sakos 3y ago
    I'm not really talking about the current generation (especially since I'm not a part of it). I'm talking along longer timespans as a longer process. Hundreds to thousands of years. The old being wise goes back a long time, and we didn't just realize it's bullshit yesterday.
    - wolverine876 3y ago
      Fair enough, but the mistake of (some of) the young is to call it bullshit - first they think it's scripture (which it is to younger children, and which they need to believe to feel safe) and then, when they discover that older people are flawed humans, they think it's all bullshit. It's neither. Older people often do know many things that younger people don't yet, but older people are very human too.
wolverine876 3y ago
To address one point, > Tolkien didn't like allegories and insisted that the ring wasn't symbolic of anything The former is true, the latter is not: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37205904 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37205904

by elihu 3y ago

Sakos 3y ago

What's changed is we've as a culture realized that age doesn't automatically bestow wisdom. A wise old man is a valuable part of culture and society. But not all old men are wise and it doesn't seem to be a function of being old. Bernie has held his beliefs for decades. He was wise when he was younger and that's persisted (or developed further with the guidance of time and experience) into his current age. Wisdom is something that has to be cultivated for a lifetime and we simply don't do that as a society or a culture. Did we ever? I'm not sure.

elihu 3y ago
I think there are a lot of people who still care about wisdom and try to work on it. Our popular culture and economic and political systems don't always do a good job of encouraging or valuing wisdom. I think there are probably a lot of old men and women like Bernie out there, they just aren't very visible. What's unusual about Bernie is that he's managed to become famous and is in a position of power.
wolverine876 3y ago
> What's changed is we've as a culture realized that age doesn't automatically bestow wisdom. That's no new realization, but a continuing pattern, generation after generation. The youth of the 1960s took that idea much further than today's kids. 'Every generation thinks they invented sex.'
- Sakos 3y ago
  I'm not really talking about the current generation (especially since I'm not a part of it). I'm talking along longer timespans as a longer process. Hundreds to thousands of years. The old being wise goes back a long time, and we didn't just realize it's bullshit yesterday.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    Fair enough, but the mistake of (some of) the young is to call it bullshit - first they think it's scripture (which it is to younger children, and which they need to believe to feel safe) and then, when they discover that older people are flawed humans, they think it's all bullshit. It's neither. Older people often do know many things that younger people don't yet, but older people are very human too.

wolverine876 3y ago

To address one point, > Tolkien didn't like allegories and insisted that the ring wasn't symbolic of anything The former is true, the latter is not: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37205904 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37205904