5 ms·

Apparently there are no known mechanisms by which vaccination in general might trigger autoimmune disorders, and statistically speaking, this is also not happen

Apparently there are no known mechanisms by which vaccination in general might trigger autoimmune disorders, and statistically speaking, this is also not happening: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8402446/#:~:text=Currently%2C%20no%20mechanisms%20have%20been,the%20development%20of%20autoimmune%20diseases https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8402446/#:~:tex.... Except in very rare cases for two particular disorders for two particular vaccines respectively.

pfannkuchen 3y ago
Thanks for the link. Unfortunately though I do not believe it is relevant to my question. Allergies are an immune system disorder, but they are not an auto immune system disorder (unless the human body has started producing pollen without my knowledge). The article does not mention allergies as far as I can tell (probably for this reason).
- soudiere 3y ago
  Allergies and auto-immune disorders are "expressions" of the same underlying process. Dysfunction in regulatory t cells, part of the adaptive immune system that "trains" the adaptive immune system on what to "attack". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_T_cell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_T_cell
  - pfannkuchen 3y ago
    Sure, in the same way that busses and porcupines are expressions of the same underlying process. There are also some key differences, or else we would expect a similar prevalence of autoimmune disease as allergies, no?
    - soudiere 3y ago
      No. Allergies and Auto-immunity are both pathologies of the adaptive immune system "incorrectly" targeting things. Regulatory t cells, "tregs", modulate this. https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(16)30499-7/fulltext https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(16)30499-7/ful...
      - pfannkuchen 3y ago
        My point is that while there may be some broad commonality (with physics being a hyperbolic commonality in the example I gave), this does not mean that there are no differences and that we can always infer information about one from information about the other (though in some cases we can).
        soudiere 3y ago
        This idea is not my own, it's something discussed in the clinical literature. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2276104/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2276104/ There is literature documenting a higher incidence of allergies in patients with autoimmune disorders. https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/54/5/1900476 https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/54/5/1900476 BACH2 is one of the gene's being investigated for it's role in allergies & auto-immune disorders, and tregs, which is why I keep bringing them up on this thread. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3710737/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3710737/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8934237/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8934237/
        pfannkuchen 3y ago
        I think what you are implying above is that we can take a study or survey about autoimmune disease and use it to make conclusions about allergies. All I am saying is that this does not logically follow, because the two are not the same and “allergy” is not a strict subclass of “autoimmune disease”. The specific details of the mechanism are not relevant to the logical point unless those details establish a subclass or identity relationship (which here they do not).
- jgilias 3y ago
  Ah sorry, from your quote I understood that you’re talking about actual autoimmune disorders: > also enhance the learned immune response to other materials in the body around vaccination time, which results in an “allergy” to those other material(s). I mean, those are literally “allergies” to materials in your body.

pfannkuchen 3y ago

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately though I do not believe it is relevant to my question. Allergies are an immune system disorder, but they are not an auto immune system disorder (unless the human body has started producing pollen without my knowledge). The article does not mention allergies as far as I can tell (probably for this reason).

soudiere 3y ago
Allergies and auto-immune disorders are "expressions" of the same underlying process. Dysfunction in regulatory t cells, part of the adaptive immune system that "trains" the adaptive immune system on what to "attack". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_T_cell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_T_cell
- pfannkuchen 3y ago
  Sure, in the same way that busses and porcupines are expressions of the same underlying process. There are also some key differences, or else we would expect a similar prevalence of autoimmune disease as allergies, no?
  - soudiere 3y ago
    No. Allergies and Auto-immunity are both pathologies of the adaptive immune system "incorrectly" targeting things. Regulatory t cells, "tregs", modulate this. https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(16)30499-7/fulltext https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(16)30499-7/ful...
    - pfannkuchen 3y ago
      My point is that while there may be some broad commonality (with physics being a hyperbolic commonality in the example I gave), this does not mean that there are no differences and that we can always infer information about one from information about the other (though in some cases we can).
      - soudiere 3y ago
        This idea is not my own, it's something discussed in the clinical literature. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2276104/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2276104/ There is literature documenting a higher incidence of allergies in patients with autoimmune disorders. https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/54/5/1900476 https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/54/5/1900476 BACH2 is one of the gene's being investigated for it's role in allergies & auto-immune disorders, and tregs, which is why I keep bringing them up on this thread. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3710737/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3710737/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8934237/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8934237/
        pfannkuchen 3y ago
        I think what you are implying above is that we can take a study or survey about autoimmune disease and use it to make conclusions about allergies. All I am saying is that this does not logically follow, because the two are not the same and “allergy” is not a strict subclass of “autoimmune disease”. The specific details of the mechanism are not relevant to the logical point unless those details establish a subclass or identity relationship (which here they do not).
jgilias 3y ago
Ah sorry, from your quote I understood that you’re talking about actual autoimmune disorders: > also enhance the learned immune response to other materials in the body around vaccination time, which results in an “allergy” to those other material(s). I mean, those are literally “allergies” to materials in your body.