4 ms·

>The level of desperation the ISP’s engineers have felt in front of such incompetence must have been through the roof. If I was an engineer there I would block

by veave 3y ago

>The level of desperation the ISP’s engineers have felt in front of such incompetence must have been through the roof. If I was an engineer there I would block the addresses and call it a day. What do I care? After all it's customer service who will deal with the angry calls.

clnq 3y ago
Fortunately they didn't do that and instead got this in front of regulators.
- gsich 3y ago
  Some, if not all did it.
redox99 3y ago
Obviously your boss or boss's boss would care.
- veave 3y ago
  It would be my boss or boss' boss ordering me to block the addresses, wouldn't it?
  - redox99 3y ago
    Yes, who would also yell at you when customers can't access their cat pictures. Of course it could be an accident, and you didn't know. But if it was clearly malicious compliance, personally and I think I speak for many, I wouldn't continue to have on the team somebody with these kinds of traits.
    - veave 3y ago
      I don't think I understand. A court orders you to block certain IP addresses: you have no options. If that block disallows access to unrelated pages there's nothing either the engineer or the boss can do. Should the engineer lose any sleep over this? Am I missing something?
      - throwitaway156 3y ago
        you are missing the experience of an asshole manager pressuring you to 'just fix it' in an enraged state accompanied by their phone constantly buzzing from the sweet notification sound of getting bombarded by emails/tickets. for context, i didnt experience this yet. I hope i never do.
      - esrauch 3y ago
        Courts don't work like computer programs, if the court order would have clearly unintended outcomes then you have some option to in good faith not comply with the order, have your lawyers raise it with the right politicians or courts, and not end up in legal trouble. The job if the engineer who notices this is to raise it to their boss and legal counsel and let them decide whether you should still execute the planned block or not. If they decide you should then you do, if they decide you shouldn't then you don't.
        badsectoracula 3y ago
        > The job if the engineer who notices this is to raise it to their boss and legal counsel... ...shouldn't the legal department be involved way before the issue reaches the engineer? Why should the engineer ever care about it in the first place? Chances are these orders do not come directly to their email.
        redox99 3y ago
        > shouldn't the legal department be involved way before the issue reaches the engineer? Possibly, but the legal department might not know what cloudflare is or the implications until the engineers explain it.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        MichaelZuo 3y ago
        That seems like an extremely unlikely scenario for the legal department of an ISP in 2023.

by veave 3y ago

clnq 3y ago

Fortunately they didn't do that and instead got this in front of regulators.

gsich 3y ago
Some, if not all did it.

redox99 3y ago

Obviously your boss or boss's boss would care.

veave 3y ago
It would be my boss or boss' boss ordering me to block the addresses, wouldn't it?
- redox99 3y ago
  Yes, who would also yell at you when customers can't access their cat pictures. Of course it could be an accident, and you didn't know. But if it was clearly malicious compliance, personally and I think I speak for many, I wouldn't continue to have on the team somebody with these kinds of traits.
  - veave 3y ago
    I don't think I understand. A court orders you to block certain IP addresses: you have no options. If that block disallows access to unrelated pages there's nothing either the engineer or the boss can do. Should the engineer lose any sleep over this? Am I missing something?
    - throwitaway156 3y ago
      you are missing the experience of an asshole manager pressuring you to 'just fix it' in an enraged state accompanied by their phone constantly buzzing from the sweet notification sound of getting bombarded by emails/tickets. for context, i didnt experience this yet. I hope i never do.
    - esrauch 3y ago
      Courts don't work like computer programs, if the court order would have clearly unintended outcomes then you have some option to in good faith not comply with the order, have your lawyers raise it with the right politicians or courts, and not end up in legal trouble. The job if the engineer who notices this is to raise it to their boss and legal counsel and let them decide whether you should still execute the planned block or not. If they decide you should then you do, if they decide you shouldn't then you don't.
      - badsectoracula 3y ago
        > The job if the engineer who notices this is to raise it to their boss and legal counsel... ...shouldn't the legal department be involved way before the issue reaches the engineer? Why should the engineer ever care about it in the first place? Chances are these orders do not come directly to their email.
        redox99 3y ago
        > shouldn't the legal department be involved way before the issue reaches the engineer? Possibly, but the legal department might not know what cloudflare is or the implications until the engineers explain it.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        MichaelZuo 3y ago
        That seems like an extremely unlikely scenario for the legal department of an ISP in 2023.