5 ms·

Female genital mutilation, leading cause of death in African countries

75 points by jdmark 3y ago

FloatArtifact 3y ago
Not quite understanding the graph. Enteric diseases are caused by micro-organisms such as viruses, bacteria and parasites that cause intestinal illness. Seems a lot broader than just the title of the article.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
drekipus 3y ago
The fact that genital mutilation still happens today, and people still defend it as the right thing to do, is astounding. It is a bit of skin that is used to protect and moisten sexual organs. I think it's obvious to anyone that they're crucial for keeping things clean and healthy.
- MathMonkeyMan 3y ago
  Circumcision can be a solution to chronic urinary tract infections in young boys, as was the case with me when I was five. I've also read that it makes HIV transmission less likely. Not sure why either would be true, but at least the first is.
  - danlindley 3y ago
    The issue is not with what a medical professional considers an option for medical reasons. The issue, which I too find to be utterly despicable, is the non-consensual mutilation. Any other description only serves to minimize or mask what is ultimately a barbaric ritual.
  - water-data-dude 3y ago
    Warning: this wikipedia article on circumcision includes pictures of penises (as you’d expect). You need to scroll a while to find them, but they ARE lurking. Basically, it looks like there’s a consensus that for vaginal sex (and probably anal sex) it can reduce the risk of contracting HIV for the penetrative partner. It’s much less effective than condom use or something like PrEP, but it makes a lot of sense in some high risk populations. Right now it’s being actively encouraged in Africa. HIV has been exploding over there and, while condom use, tests, and PrEP are more effective, it’s hard to get a steady supply to the people who would benefit - and then hard to get them to use condoms/take PrEP/get tested consistently. It’s less effective, but it’s a one and done thing that will reduce the risk somewhat, so hopefully it’ll help put the brakes on. I don’t think male circumcision makes a lot of sense in developed countries in most cases, since we have easy access to a steady supply of condoms, PrEP, and testing - as well as medicine to clear up UTIs and such. The medical community is somewhat divided though, so IDK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision#Prophylactic_usage_in_high-risk_populations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision#Prophylactic_usag...
    - invalidname 3y ago
      I understood there isn't consensus around that. If that were the case HIV would be far more widespread in Europe than the states. This is a much better resource: https://arstechnica.com/science/2015/02/the-troubled-history-of-the-foreskin/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2015/02/the-troubled-history...
    - Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
      So, the person being circumcised can tradeoff less sex pleasure for less chance of HIV. How about asking them before circumcising?
      - water-data-dude 3y ago
        For what it’s worth, I agree. I’m circumcised and I turned out ok - but I probably wouldn’t have chosen it, I don’t like the idea of forcing it on people, and it doesn’t seem as though there’s a lot of benefit in a country like the US. In the case of using male circumcision as a prophylaxis against HIV in Africa, the benefits seem much clearer (there’s an HIV epidemic running out of control), and the WHO guidelines are careful to say “Aimed at adolescent boys and men” in the title: https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/978-92-4-000854-0 https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/978-92-4-000854-0
  - barbazoo 3y ago
    Sounds like a treatment more than a preventative measure. I don't get why some cultures apply it so broadly.
  - M5x7wI3CmbEem10 3y ago
    I implore you to view the scientific literature with skepticism. This is a phenomenal thread on the subject by a senior research fellow at Oxford: https://twitter.com/briandavidearp/status/1079164114784714752 https://twitter.com/briandavidearp/status/107916411478471475...
    - cbeach 3y ago
      Excellent thread. I take this as a warning to carefully consider ANY medical treatment (especially novel ones) where some corporation stands to benefit hugely. Scientists, just like politicians, can be corrupted. Science, particularly “expedited” science, can be manipulated to demonstrate whatever policymakers (and thus lobbyists) want it to show. There’s one thing that cannot be corrupted - a healthy human body that I keep free of novel interventions. If I’m on my deathbed and there’s a novel form of immunotherapy that was patented yesterday, then fine, I will try it. But if I’m healthy, and and I’m offered a novel form of vaccine of an entirely new technology I will question it. Especially if it causes my own healthy cells (including heart, lung, brain and reproductive cells) to express a protein that leads them to be destroyed by my NK cells and cytotoxic T cells. Now I’m sure there will be a authoritarian minority that will jump on this post and try to remove it, and who will try to remove me from HN. I’m sure you think you’re doing society a good deed. But bear in mind, the suppression of critique of novel technology can also contribute to widespread suspicion about that technology and the people pushing it.
- M5x7wI3CmbEem10 3y ago
  It serves far greater function[0]. It's serious enough that it's led to suicides[1] and suicidal ideation[2][3][4]. Fortunately, a research lab called Foregen is near to a solution to reverse male genital mutilation[5]. [0] https://www.foregen.org/the-human-foreskin https://www.foregen.org/the-human-foreskin [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-47292307 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-47292307 [2] https://youtu.be/vVuEST8RdL8 https://youtu.be/vVuEST8RdL8 [3] http://reddit.com/r/circumcisiongrief http://reddit.com/r/circumcisiongrief [4] http://reddit.com/r/foreskin_restoration http://reddit.com/r/foreskin_restoration [5] https://foregen.org https://foregen.org
- jstarfish 3y ago
  It continues because FGM is too broadly defined. It's never clear whether they're talking about cutting off the clitoral hood, the clitoris itself or the entire vulva. Only the former is anything like male circumcision; the latter two are the equivalent of severing the glans, and removing the scrotal sac (while preserving the testes), respectively. There are no upsides to the latter two FGM practices, but having an intact/thick hood can interfere with orgasm for some women (basically female phimosis; the affected tend to need a vibrator to get off). I've heard topical testosterone is a possible nonsurgical solution, but hormone roulette presents its own interesting problems. It's very much a personal decision though and the amount of effort we expend on forcibly tampering with the genitals of others (especially children) never ceases to astound me either.
qawwads 3y ago
leading cause of death in some African countries
s1artibartfast 3y ago
Title gore and flagged. >Female genital mutilation identified as _a_ leading cause of death in African countries
raincom 3y ago
Dawood Bohras (a particular Shia sect in Islam) practices this, it is called Khatna or Khafd. Most of Dawoodi Bohras come from Mumbai, India, where this is common[4]. A female doctor from this particular community was prosecuted in Detroit for practicing this[1], her case was dismissed, as the US district judge found that "Congress overstepped its bounds by legislating to prohibit (female genital mutilation)". After this, the state of Michigan banned this practice. Another person got busted in Texas for transporting a minor from UK to Texas for female Genital mutilation[2]. More cases from the states [3]. [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/detroit-emergency-room-doctor-arrested-and-charged-performing-female-genital-mutilation https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/detroit-emergency-room-doctor... [2] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/texas-woman-indicted-transporting-minor-female-genital-mutilation https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/texas-woman-indicted-transpor... [3] https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-detroit-female-genital-mutilation-case-20170421-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-detroit-femal... [4] https://www.hindustantimes.com/static/fgm-indias-dark-secret/ https://www.hindustantimes.com/static/fgm-indias-dark-secret...
- alephnerd 3y ago
  > Dawoodi Bohras come from Mumbai, India, where this is common The Dawoodi Bohra community in India is from Gujarat, but emigrated from Oman and Yemen in the 1300s-1800s, and ended up moving the Mumbai in the 19th century. They are a subset of the Arab origin communities within South Asia that migrated from what is now Yemen and Oman to South Asia for a mix of economic and social opportunity. There's a similar community of (Sunni) Yemenis in central Hyderabad, who emigrated from Hadhramut to Hyderabad for economic reasons, along with other groups across the entire Western Coast of the subcontinent. This is distinct from Northwestern and Central India, where immigrants from Khorasan and Turkic Central Asia were much more common, and as such the Folk Islam practices in those regions are much more Persianate in style.

75 points by jdmark 3y ago

Not quite understanding the graph. Enteric diseases are caused by micro-organisms such as viruses, bacteria and parasites that cause intestinal illness. Seems a lot broader than just the title of the article.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

drekipus 3y ago

The fact that genital mutilation still happens today, and people still defend it as the right thing to do, is astounding. It is a bit of skin that is used to protect and moisten sexual organs. I think it's obvious to anyone that they're crucial for keeping things clean and healthy.

MathMonkeyMan 3y ago
Circumcision can be a solution to chronic urinary tract infections in young boys, as was the case with me when I was five. I've also read that it makes HIV transmission less likely. Not sure why either would be true, but at least the first is.
- danlindley 3y ago
  The issue is not with what a medical professional considers an option for medical reasons. The issue, which I too find to be utterly despicable, is the non-consensual mutilation. Any other description only serves to minimize or mask what is ultimately a barbaric ritual.
- water-data-dude 3y ago
  Warning: this wikipedia article on circumcision includes pictures of penises (as you’d expect). You need to scroll a while to find them, but they ARE lurking. Basically, it looks like there’s a consensus that for vaginal sex (and probably anal sex) it can reduce the risk of contracting HIV for the penetrative partner. It’s much less effective than condom use or something like PrEP, but it makes a lot of sense in some high risk populations. Right now it’s being actively encouraged in Africa. HIV has been exploding over there and, while condom use, tests, and PrEP are more effective, it’s hard to get a steady supply to the people who would benefit - and then hard to get them to use condoms/take PrEP/get tested consistently. It’s less effective, but it’s a one and done thing that will reduce the risk somewhat, so hopefully it’ll help put the brakes on. I don’t think male circumcision makes a lot of sense in developed countries in most cases, since we have easy access to a steady supply of condoms, PrEP, and testing - as well as medicine to clear up UTIs and such. The medical community is somewhat divided though, so IDK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision#Prophylactic_usage_in_high-risk_populations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision#Prophylactic_usag...
  - invalidname 3y ago
    I understood there isn't consensus around that. If that were the case HIV would be far more widespread in Europe than the states. This is a much better resource: https://arstechnica.com/science/2015/02/the-troubled-history-of-the-foreskin/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2015/02/the-troubled-history...
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
    So, the person being circumcised can tradeoff less sex pleasure for less chance of HIV. How about asking them before circumcising?
    - water-data-dude 3y ago
      For what it’s worth, I agree. I’m circumcised and I turned out ok - but I probably wouldn’t have chosen it, I don’t like the idea of forcing it on people, and it doesn’t seem as though there’s a lot of benefit in a country like the US. In the case of using male circumcision as a prophylaxis against HIV in Africa, the benefits seem much clearer (there’s an HIV epidemic running out of control), and the WHO guidelines are careful to say “Aimed at adolescent boys and men” in the title: https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/978-92-4-000854-0 https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/978-92-4-000854-0
- barbazoo 3y ago
  Sounds like a treatment more than a preventative measure. I don't get why some cultures apply it so broadly.
- M5x7wI3CmbEem10 3y ago
  I implore you to view the scientific literature with skepticism. This is a phenomenal thread on the subject by a senior research fellow at Oxford: https://twitter.com/briandavidearp/status/1079164114784714752 https://twitter.com/briandavidearp/status/107916411478471475...
  - cbeach 3y ago
    Excellent thread. I take this as a warning to carefully consider ANY medical treatment (especially novel ones) where some corporation stands to benefit hugely. Scientists, just like politicians, can be corrupted. Science, particularly “expedited” science, can be manipulated to demonstrate whatever policymakers (and thus lobbyists) want it to show. There’s one thing that cannot be corrupted - a healthy human body that I keep free of novel interventions. If I’m on my deathbed and there’s a novel form of immunotherapy that was patented yesterday, then fine, I will try it. But if I’m healthy, and and I’m offered a novel form of vaccine of an entirely new technology I will question it. Especially if it causes my own healthy cells (including heart, lung, brain and reproductive cells) to express a protein that leads them to be destroyed by my NK cells and cytotoxic T cells. Now I’m sure there will be a authoritarian minority that will jump on this post and try to remove it, and who will try to remove me from HN. I’m sure you think you’re doing society a good deed. But bear in mind, the suppression of critique of novel technology can also contribute to widespread suspicion about that technology and the people pushing it.
M5x7wI3CmbEem10 3y ago
It serves far greater function[0]. It's serious enough that it's led to suicides[1] and suicidal ideation[2][3][4]. Fortunately, a research lab called Foregen is near to a solution to reverse male genital mutilation[5]. [0] https://www.foregen.org/the-human-foreskin https://www.foregen.org/the-human-foreskin [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-47292307 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-47292307 [2] https://youtu.be/vVuEST8RdL8 https://youtu.be/vVuEST8RdL8 [3] http://reddit.com/r/circumcisiongrief http://reddit.com/r/circumcisiongrief [4] http://reddit.com/r/foreskin_restoration http://reddit.com/r/foreskin_restoration [5] https://foregen.org https://foregen.org
jstarfish 3y ago
It continues because FGM is too broadly defined. It's never clear whether they're talking about cutting off the clitoral hood, the clitoris itself or the entire vulva. Only the former is anything like male circumcision; the latter two are the equivalent of severing the glans, and removing the scrotal sac (while preserving the testes), respectively. There are no upsides to the latter two FGM practices, but having an intact/thick hood can interfere with orgasm for some women (basically female phimosis; the affected tend to need a vibrator to get off). I've heard topical testosterone is a possible nonsurgical solution, but hormone roulette presents its own interesting problems. It's very much a personal decision though and the amount of effort we expend on forcibly tampering with the genitals of others (especially children) never ceases to astound me either.

qawwads 3y ago

leading cause of death in some African countries

s1artibartfast 3y ago

Title gore and flagged. >Female genital mutilation identified as _a_ leading cause of death in African countries

raincom 3y ago

Dawood Bohras (a particular Shia sect in Islam) practices this, it is called Khatna or Khafd. Most of Dawoodi Bohras come from Mumbai, India, where this is common[4]. A female doctor from this particular community was prosecuted in Detroit for practicing this[1], her case was dismissed, as the US district judge found that "Congress overstepped its bounds by legislating to prohibit (female genital mutilation)". After this, the state of Michigan banned this practice. Another person got busted in Texas for transporting a minor from UK to Texas for female Genital mutilation[2]. More cases from the states [3]. [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/detroit-emergency-room-doctor-arrested-and-charged-performing-female-genital-mutilation https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/detroit-emergency-room-doctor... [2] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/texas-woman-indicted-transporting-minor-female-genital-mutilation https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/texas-woman-indicted-transpor... [3] https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-detroit-female-genital-mutilation-case-20170421-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-detroit-femal... [4] https://www.hindustantimes.com/static/fgm-indias-dark-secret/ https://www.hindustantimes.com/static/fgm-indias-dark-secret...

alephnerd 3y ago
> Dawoodi Bohras come from Mumbai, India, where this is common The Dawoodi Bohra community in India is from Gujarat, but emigrated from Oman and Yemen in the 1300s-1800s, and ended up moving the Mumbai in the 19th century. They are a subset of the Arab origin communities within South Asia that migrated from what is now Yemen and Oman to South Asia for a mix of economic and social opportunity. There's a similar community of (Sunni) Yemenis in central Hyderabad, who emigrated from Hadhramut to Hyderabad for economic reasons, along with other groups across the entire Western Coast of the subcontinent. This is distinct from Northwestern and Central India, where immigrants from Khorasan and Turkic Central Asia were much more common, and as such the Folk Islam practices in those regions are much more Persianate in style.