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> I’m so tired of this angle being accepted at face value. Current driverless cars are not even capable of safely navigating situations that below-average human

> I’m so tired of this angle being accepted at face value. Current driverless cars are not even capable of safely navigating situations that below-average human drivers rarely struggle with, like avoiding driving into clearly marked wet concrete, or not crashing into an emergency vehicle that has its sirens and lights blazing. The incident was reported as the Cruise robotaxi being struck by an emergency vehicle. It sounds less like the car drove into the big vehicle with the flashing red lights and more like the vehicle wasn't visible and the robotaxi drive into the intersection and was struck. This is a common failure mode of below average human drivers as well. I agree that its a failure mode that needs to be eliminated and looks pretty bad on Cruise for not anticipating and testing this, but that is a situation that below-average human drivers absolutely do struggle with.

lamontcg 3y ago
Yeah it sounds like the corner was blind and the Cruise was in the right lane and the Firetruck had crossed into the oncoming traffic lane and struck the cruise on the right side: https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2023/08/18/cruise-robotaxi-hit-by-on-call-fire-engine--is-it-the-fire-trucks-fault https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2023/08/18/cruise... The title may sound a little bit inflammatory but emergency vehicles are usually found at fault when they enter a red light, even when they're running lights and sirens and have a collision. They don't get tickets for breaking the law, but they are often found civilly at fault for collisions that happen when they do. They're expected to slow and visually clear the intersection, and if they were using the oncoming lane and couldn't see cross traffic they should have been more cautious. This happens all the time with humans. One of the many reasons why 2 or more vehicles are usually dispatched (although there's a few videos you can find on youtube of firetrucks from different engine companies responding to the same incident T-boning each other as well). Waymo at least claims to do things much more correctly and like a human in this case: > Waymo representatives believe their vehicle would have handled this situation. According to Waymo, “Waymo has developed various technologies to detect active emergency vehicles even if they are not in direct view. Like humans, our vehicles can hear sirens and reason about the direction, location, and motion of the active emergency vehicle, importantly including whether it is approaching or receding. When we hear sirens, our vehicle will slow and then depending on how the situation develops, we will either pull over or stop ahead of intersections where there might be crossing emergency vehicles, even if we have a green light. The system is designed to remain cautious and not enter an intersection if it is still reasoning whether the emergency vehicle is approaching the intersection based on what it is sensing.” However, it is fair to say that Cruise has said similar things about their own vehicles ability to detect emergency vehicles, and Waymo has not tested in this exact situation. Cruise should still get punished over this, and I don't know if 50% reduction in vehicles is enough of a punishment or what it should be. Going "move fast, break things" on public streets to try to catch up to your competitor should definitely result in you losing more ground that you think you're gaining when you're busted for it, or else it isn't a deterrent.

lamontcg 3y ago

Yeah it sounds like the corner was blind and the Cruise was in the right lane and the Firetruck had crossed into the oncoming traffic lane and struck the cruise on the right side: https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2023/08/18/cruise-robotaxi-hit-by-on-call-fire-engine--is-it-the-fire-trucks-fault https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2023/08/18/cruise... The title may sound a little bit inflammatory but emergency vehicles are usually found at fault when they enter a red light, even when they're running lights and sirens and have a collision. They don't get tickets for breaking the law, but they are often found civilly at fault for collisions that happen when they do. They're expected to slow and visually clear the intersection, and if they were using the oncoming lane and couldn't see cross traffic they should have been more cautious. This happens all the time with humans. One of the many reasons why 2 or more vehicles are usually dispatched (although there's a few videos you can find on youtube of firetrucks from different engine companies responding to the same incident T-boning each other as well). Waymo at least claims to do things much more correctly and like a human in this case: > Waymo representatives believe their vehicle would have handled this situation. According to Waymo, “Waymo has developed various technologies to detect active emergency vehicles even if they are not in direct view. Like humans, our vehicles can hear sirens and reason about the direction, location, and motion of the active emergency vehicle, importantly including whether it is approaching or receding. When we hear sirens, our vehicle will slow and then depending on how the situation develops, we will either pull over or stop ahead of intersections where there might be crossing emergency vehicles, even if we have a green light. The system is designed to remain cautious and not enter an intersection if it is still reasoning whether the emergency vehicle is approaching the intersection based on what it is sensing.” However, it is fair to say that Cruise has said similar things about their own vehicles ability to detect emergency vehicles, and Waymo has not tested in this exact situation. Cruise should still get punished over this, and I don't know if 50% reduction in vehicles is enough of a punishment or what it should be. Going "move fast, break things" on public streets to try to catch up to your competitor should definitely result in you losing more ground that you think you're gaining when you're busted for it, or else it isn't a deterrent.