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People often think that lowering meat consumption (something we absolutely have to do) means eating bugs. I'd worry exactly about how this shift might inadvert

by myshpa 3y ago

People often think that lowering meat consumption (something we absolutely have to do) means eating bugs. I'd worry exactly about how this shift might inadvertently overlook the ethical considerations, especially given the sheer volume of conscious beings involved.

eulgro 3y ago
Why would lowering meat consumption require eating bugs?
- Scarblac 3y ago
  It wouldn't, but insects are a promising source of animal protein with less environmental impact than other forms of livestock. There are many plant and fungus based sources as well, of course, and in general there is an obesity epidemic and we can easily reduce the amount of protein we eat without having to replace it with anything. Right wing propaganda then turns that into "they want to force you to eat bugs".
  - imjonse 3y ago
    The body's protein requirements are usually overestimated based on hearsay and this results in too much importance being given to animal based food. Unless you're a growing child, pregnant, bodybuilder or have a medical condition you probably have plenty of protein without consuming meat, and very likely in the other cases too with a balanced diet. One should pay attention to sugars/fats/micronutrients a lot more. The silly 'But where do you get your protein?' was repeated so much that it inevitably lead to 'they will give us bugs'.
    - myshpa 3y ago
      True ... and we're already getting 63% of protein (and 82% of calories) from plants. https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets
Aperocky 3y ago
> something we absolutely have to do That seems to be a personal thing.
- myshpa 3y ago
  > That seems to be a personal thing. Not really. Animal agriculture is the leading driver of deforestation, biodiversity loss and droughts, and its other effects on the environment include significant greenhouse gas emissions, water pollution, and soil degradation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction The current rate of extinction of species is estimated at 100 to 1,000 times higher than natural background extinction rates, and is increasing. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01448-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01448-4 Humans are driving one million species to extinction https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/brv.12974 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/brv.12974 More losers than winners: investigating Anthropocene defaunation through the diversity of population trends https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/13/almost-70-of-animal-populations-wiped-out-since-1970-report-reveals-aoe https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/13/almost-7... Animal populations experience average decline of almost 70% since 1970, report reveals https://www.jpost.com/environment-and-climate-change/article-744003 https://www.jpost.com/environment-and-climate-change/article... Mass extinction of Earth's wildlife is closer than we think - study https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1400253 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1400253 Accelerated modern human–induced species losses: Entering the sixth mass extinction https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2019/05/nature-decline-unprecedented-report/ https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2019/05/natur... UN Report: Nature’s Dangerous Decline ‘Unprecedented’; Species Extinction Rates ‘Accelerating’ https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/21/14449 https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/21/14449 How Compatible Are Western European Dietary Patterns to Climate Targets? https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/07/insect-decline-a-threat-to-fruit-crops-and-food-security-scientists-warn-mps-aoe https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/07/insect-d... Insect decline a threat to fruit crops and food security, scientists warn MPs https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-023-00795-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-023-00795-w Vegans, vegetarians, fish-eaters and meat-eaters in the UK show discrepant environmental impacts https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320356605_Agriculture_production_as_a_major_driver_of_the_Earth_system_exceeding_planetary_boundaries https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320356605_Agricultu... Agriculture production as a major driver of the Earth system exceeding planetary boundaries https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/ Biodiversity conservation: The key is reducing meat consumption https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/917471 https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/917471 Feeding 10 billion people by 2050 within planetary limits may be achievable A global shift towards healthy and more plant-based diets, halving food loss and waste, and improving farming practices and technologies are required to feed 10 billion people sustainably by 2050, a new study finds.
hinkley 3y ago
Pigs and chickens are built to consume insects, but we feed them hardly any.
seszett 3y ago
> People often think that lowering meat consumption (something we absolutely have to do) means eating bugs. I have not heard this but I can believe that's what people think, however it seems a bit weird to me, do these people think insect meat is not meat, like some people consider fish to be somehow vegetarian?
- throwanem 3y ago
  I think in this case it's more to do with proportionally lower caloric input requirements for a given output mass of meat, although I admit I'm unclear on the details. I wouldn't look too closely for a consistent ethical basis in vegetarianism and veganism, both of which require drawing an arbitrarily defined line between living things it's okay to kill and eat and living things that it isn't, and then treating that as axiomatic. I respect the motivation, but not the result - we all draw our own lines, but it takes an unreasonable amount of brass in a person to try to argue their line should be good enough for everyone.

by myshpa 3y ago

eulgro 3y ago

Why would lowering meat consumption require eating bugs?

Scarblac 3y ago
It wouldn't, but insects are a promising source of animal protein with less environmental impact than other forms of livestock. There are many plant and fungus based sources as well, of course, and in general there is an obesity epidemic and we can easily reduce the amount of protein we eat without having to replace it with anything. Right wing propaganda then turns that into "they want to force you to eat bugs".
- imjonse 3y ago
  The body's protein requirements are usually overestimated based on hearsay and this results in too much importance being given to animal based food. Unless you're a growing child, pregnant, bodybuilder or have a medical condition you probably have plenty of protein without consuming meat, and very likely in the other cases too with a balanced diet. One should pay attention to sugars/fats/micronutrients a lot more. The silly 'But where do you get your protein?' was repeated so much that it inevitably lead to 'they will give us bugs'.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    True ... and we're already getting 63% of protein (and 82% of calories) from plants. https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets

Aperocky 3y ago

> something we absolutely have to do That seems to be a personal thing.

myshpa 3y ago
> That seems to be a personal thing. Not really. Animal agriculture is the leading driver of deforestation, biodiversity loss and droughts, and its other effects on the environment include significant greenhouse gas emissions, water pollution, and soil degradation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction The current rate of extinction of species is estimated at 100 to 1,000 times higher than natural background extinction rates, and is increasing. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01448-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01448-4 Humans are driving one million species to extinction https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/brv.12974 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/brv.12974 More losers than winners: investigating Anthropocene defaunation through the diversity of population trends https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/13/almost-70-of-animal-populations-wiped-out-since-1970-report-reveals-aoe https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/13/almost-7... Animal populations experience average decline of almost 70% since 1970, report reveals https://www.jpost.com/environment-and-climate-change/article-744003 https://www.jpost.com/environment-and-climate-change/article... Mass extinction of Earth's wildlife is closer than we think - study https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1400253 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1400253 Accelerated modern human–induced species losses: Entering the sixth mass extinction https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2019/05/nature-decline-unprecedented-report/ https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2019/05/natur... UN Report: Nature’s Dangerous Decline ‘Unprecedented’; Species Extinction Rates ‘Accelerating’ https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/21/14449 https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/21/14449 How Compatible Are Western European Dietary Patterns to Climate Targets? https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/07/insect-decline-a-threat-to-fruit-crops-and-food-security-scientists-warn-mps-aoe https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/07/insect-d... Insect decline a threat to fruit crops and food security, scientists warn MPs https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-023-00795-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-023-00795-w Vegans, vegetarians, fish-eaters and meat-eaters in the UK show discrepant environmental impacts https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320356605_Agriculture_production_as_a_major_driver_of_the_Earth_system_exceeding_planetary_boundaries https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320356605_Agricultu... Agriculture production as a major driver of the Earth system exceeding planetary boundaries https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/ Biodiversity conservation: The key is reducing meat consumption https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/917471 https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/917471 Feeding 10 billion people by 2050 within planetary limits may be achievable A global shift towards healthy and more plant-based diets, halving food loss and waste, and improving farming practices and technologies are required to feed 10 billion people sustainably by 2050, a new study finds.

hinkley 3y ago

Pigs and chickens are built to consume insects, but we feed them hardly any.

seszett 3y ago

> People often think that lowering meat consumption (something we absolutely have to do) means eating bugs. I have not heard this but I can believe that's what people think, however it seems a bit weird to me, do these people think insect meat is not meat, like some people consider fish to be somehow vegetarian?

throwanem 3y ago
I think in this case it's more to do with proportionally lower caloric input requirements for a given output mass of meat, although I admit I'm unclear on the details. I wouldn't look too closely for a consistent ethical basis in vegetarianism and veganism, both of which require drawing an arbitrarily defined line between living things it's okay to kill and eat and living things that it isn't, and then treating that as axiomatic. I respect the motivation, but not the result - we all draw our own lines, but it takes an unreasonable amount of brass in a person to try to argue their line should be good enough for everyone.