3 ms·

Okay so we can generalize to music theory outside of the western canon but then aren't we also allowing in "the theory of the music made by not learning western

Okay so we can generalize to music theory outside of the western canon but then aren't we also allowing in "the theory of the music made by not learning western theory but rather by listening to lou reed riffs and copying his hand movements"? At this point everyone can have their own music theory and the argument that musicians need to learn theory seems a little vacuous? Or do you draw the line at certain branches of established theory greater then just the western canon? For the record I am very much in favor of musicians learning music theory (of whatever sort). However it seems odd to say that a musician can not learn music without first learning theory. Did we have music theory before musicians? Perhaps you can make the case that given the systemic biases in our modern taste for music it is _hard_ to break away from modern music theory, but that doesn't make it impossible. See the extended technique of Fred Frith, John Zorn, Bob Ostertag, Derek Bailey, Ikue Mori, etc as an example.

ilyt 3y ago
> However it seems odd to say that a musician can not learn music without first learning theory. Except nobody said that ? Just that by learning theory you will learn faster than reverse engineering the songs you like into bases components (conciously or not). And, well, nothing stops anyone from learning more than just western music theory > Did we have music theory before musicians? We had engineering before engineers but we come to conclusion teaching someone to build bridge is far more effective than letting them stumble till they work out the basics...
- solomonb 3y ago
  > Except nobody said that ? Ksaj claimed that a musician who learned to make music without music theory will inevitably end up producing music which is actually derivative of the music of someone else who did study theory. I reject that claim. > We had engineering before engineers but we come to conclusion teaching someone to build bridge is far more effective than letting them stumble till they work out the basics... I do not think you can reasonably compare something as subject as music with mechanical engineering. Yes you can make music which has as much structure as the Golden Gate bridge but no that is not the only way to make music.

ilyt 3y ago

> However it seems odd to say that a musician can not learn music without first learning theory. Except nobody said that ? Just that by learning theory you will learn faster than reverse engineering the songs you like into bases components (conciously or not). And, well, nothing stops anyone from learning more than just western music theory > Did we have music theory before musicians? We had engineering before engineers but we come to conclusion teaching someone to build bridge is far more effective than letting them stumble till they work out the basics...

solomonb 3y ago
> Except nobody said that ? Ksaj claimed that a musician who learned to make music without music theory will inevitably end up producing music which is actually derivative of the music of someone else who did study theory. I reject that claim. > We had engineering before engineers but we come to conclusion teaching someone to build bridge is far more effective than letting them stumble till they work out the basics... I do not think you can reasonably compare something as subject as music with mechanical engineering. Yes you can make music which has as much structure as the Golden Gate bridge but no that is not the only way to make music.