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Standards are rising. Cars today are quieter (more insulation), stiffer (more metal in the body), have traction control, ABS, better brakes, numerous airbags,

by sliken 3y ago

Standards are rising. Cars today are quieter (more insulation), stiffer (more metal in the body), have traction control, ABS, better brakes, numerous airbags, wider tires, larger interiors, better stereos (more wiring and speakers), more catalytic converts, fuel injections, high pressure fuel pumps, better heat/cooling, etc. Easy to forget how bare cars were in the 1960s, how people tolerated terrible brakes, terrible tires, flexible bodies, crude attempts to minimize the flex problems with canted tires, etc. I've heard that 50 year old cars are often accelerate faster than new, even with 2/3rds the power because of the age, just by using current tires.

ComputerGuru 3y ago
Yeah, I was excluding ABS and traction control because I was only enumerating non-safety features (and including audio systems under infotainment). I’m curious how much weight airbags add – having replaced the modules before, they’re pretty lightweight… though I’m sure the numbers add up. Incidentally, you might be surprised to learn how localized some of these amenities are. In some other countries I lived in or visited, I know of “brand name” dealerships (ok, I’ll call them out, it was Chevrolet) selling cars (the same models available in the states and in Europe!) without ABS as standard – let alone traction control, automatic transmission, or (on other models?) power windows. Edit: this link has an absolutely terrific comparison of tradeoffs involved in lowering vehicle weight, compares ICE to EV weight profiles, and puts the current price per kg of weight saved for ICE vehicles at $5/kg while forecasting that EVs will reach price parity on that metric by 2030. Definitely recommend reading! https://www.lightmetalage.com/news/industry-news/automotive/electric-vehicle-material-selection-for-chassis-and-suspension-components/ https://www.lightmetalage.com/news/industry-news/automotive/...
- sliken 3y ago
  Well safety system are required and do add a fair bit of weight/complexity and a wide range of interconnected systems. For top safety ratings you need a heavy body, reinforced in weird ways, so that even an offset collision results in quite the dance of sacrificial bending, redirecting, and even rotating the engine under the car so it doesn't penetrate the cabin. It also requires quite a few sensors, each of which are on a wiring harness that reaches all over the car including accelerators in the front bumper, explosives in the airbags, explosives in the seat belt retractor, wheel torque, acceleration, and speed sensors. The wiring harness has secondary effects as well, as a critical system it must be protected, numerous mounts, and changes to design for it's routing, protection, and of course access for a human or robot to install the harness. I noticed that in Teslas the a pillars are HUGE compared to what I'm used to in a subaru forester. Numerous suspension pieces are designed to fail in a safe way so a collision doesn't redirect the wheels or engine into the cabin. I do wonder if it's worth it, if all vehicles weighed 25% less, would there be more or less deaths? At least for bikes and pedestrians larger/heavier vehicles have cost lives.

by sliken 3y ago

ComputerGuru 3y ago

Yeah, I was excluding ABS and traction control because I was only enumerating non-safety features (and including audio systems under infotainment). I’m curious how much weight airbags add – having replaced the modules before, they’re pretty lightweight… though I’m sure the numbers add up. Incidentally, you might be surprised to learn how localized some of these amenities are. In some other countries I lived in or visited, I know of “brand name” dealerships (ok, I’ll call them out, it was Chevrolet) selling cars (the same models available in the states and in Europe!) without ABS as standard – let alone traction control, automatic transmission, or (on other models?) power windows. Edit: this link has an absolutely terrific comparison of tradeoffs involved in lowering vehicle weight, compares ICE to EV weight profiles, and puts the current price per kg of weight saved for ICE vehicles at $5/kg while forecasting that EVs will reach price parity on that metric by 2030. Definitely recommend reading! https://www.lightmetalage.com/news/industry-news/automotive/electric-vehicle-material-selection-for-chassis-and-suspension-components/ https://www.lightmetalage.com/news/industry-news/automotive/...

sliken 3y ago
Well safety system are required and do add a fair bit of weight/complexity and a wide range of interconnected systems. For top safety ratings you need a heavy body, reinforced in weird ways, so that even an offset collision results in quite the dance of sacrificial bending, redirecting, and even rotating the engine under the car so it doesn't penetrate the cabin. It also requires quite a few sensors, each of which are on a wiring harness that reaches all over the car including accelerators in the front bumper, explosives in the airbags, explosives in the seat belt retractor, wheel torque, acceleration, and speed sensors. The wiring harness has secondary effects as well, as a critical system it must be protected, numerous mounts, and changes to design for it's routing, protection, and of course access for a human or robot to install the harness. I noticed that in Teslas the a pillars are HUGE compared to what I'm used to in a subaru forester. Numerous suspension pieces are designed to fail in a safe way so a collision doesn't redirect the wheels or engine into the cabin. I do wonder if it's worth it, if all vehicles weighed 25% less, would there be more or less deaths? At least for bikes and pedestrians larger/heavier vehicles have cost lives.