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Everyone knows about Chernobyl. Most likely what they didn't know was where they are. I saw too many videos of soldiers asking locals for directions in the firs

Everyone knows about Chernobyl. Most likely what they didn't know was where they are. I saw too many videos of soldiers asking locals for directions in the first days of war.

shagie 3y ago
Looking for some pre 2020 content about Russia and Chernobyl... https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nunn-lugar-russia-programs/2019-08-15/top-secret-chernobyl-nuclear-disaster-through-eyes-soviet-politburo-kgb-us-intelligence https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nunn-lugar-russia-pr... > Documents from the highest levels of the Soviet Union, including notes, protocols and diaries of Politburo sessions in the immediate aftermath of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster in 1986, detail a sequence of cover-up, revelation, shock, mobilization, individual bravery, and bureaucratic turf battles in the Soviet reaction, according to the “Top Secret Chernobyl” e-book published today by the National Security Archive. > Key sources include protocols of the Politburo Operational Group on Chernobyl that were published in Russian by the journalist and former Supreme Soviet deputy Alla Yaroshinskaya in 1992. The posting today begins with Yaroshinskaya’s essay (written exclusively for this publication) reviewing the Chernobyl story and her own efforts dating back to 1986 to document and expose the lies and the secrecy that surrounded the disaster. https://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/tv/a27787022/chernobyl-russian-response/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/tv/a27787022/cherno... > "The fact that an American, not a Russian, TV channel tells us about our own heroes is a source of shame that the pro-Kremlin media apparently cannot live down," Shepelin writes. How the Soviet Union stayed silent during the Chernobyl disaster - https://wapo.st/3shRS4M https://wapo.st/3shRS4M > Information inside Russia was sparse, too. Russian residents and even some officials were left unaware that the accident had occurred. In the news reports that trickled out, Soviet media stated that nuclear accidents like Chernobyl were "virtually impossible." > ... > The Soviet Union's refusal to release any information speaks to the mentality of the Kremlin. Perhaps the best explanation of trying to make sense of this mentality came from Ellen Goodman writing in 1988, shortly after the accident: > Exactly a year ago, in Moscow, I had a conversation with a young journalist who acted as interpreter. After a session with three bureaucrats, which bored him as much me, we went to a local coffee shop and talked about journalism and censorship. > Andre was among the elite of his Soviet generation. He was informed about America -- down to our frequent-flyer coupons -- and not reflexively defensive about the Soviet system. Yet, at one point, animatedly debating our countries' attitudes toward information, he reached for this analogy, "In the U.S.S.R. we do not tell a patient if he has cancer. Many times we treat people like they are children to be protected." > And in many ways, those living in the Soviet Union at the time would have agreed. --- While I can't say for certain, the reporting suggests that there is a deliberate willingness to collectively forget about Chernobyl within Russia.
- mepian 3y ago
  As someone born in Russia, I can assure you that since the 1980s everyone in Russia became well aware of Chernobyl. In my oblast there were furious protests against the construction of a nuclear power plant, and Chernobyl was likely their main cause. My parents told me some horror stories about the cleanup crew of Chernobyl when I was a kid.
  - tguvot 3y ago
    as somebody who born in russia you can't represent everybodies in russia knowledge. in case you don't watch them, go watch some of zolkin videos where he asks russian solders questions about history and ukraine. very enlightening
    - mepian 3y ago
      Sure, you can always cherry-pick someone from a remote village so this can't be literally "everybody", but it's absurd to claim that the majority of the population doesn't know about Chernobyl. It was a very hot topic in Russia for a long time, and in the 90s the government lost control over the information space of the country so the information about Chernobyl was spreading freely. The younger generations can learn about the topic from either their parents, or from pop culture things like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and even HBO's miniseries (freely available on Russian torrent trackers that are quite popular).
      - tguvot 3y ago
        Sure, you can always cherry-pick someone from major city so this can't be literally "everybody", but it's absurd to claim that the majority of the population knows about Chernobyl. For christ sakes, as you state, there is a whole new generation that was born after 2000 in russia. 90s are out and there is control of information> it doesn't matter that they can learn about this topic from internet or hbo or stalker (yes, sure, all gamers will assume that game is based on real events). if they are not taught about it, they won't know. did you see new history books in russia btw that were published a couple of weeks ago ? do you see the new versions of history been on tv ? the laws about spreading "false information about ussr in wwII" ?
renegade-otter 3y ago
You underestimate Russia's induced ignorance about Chernobyl. Most of these 20-year-olds were from remote, shit-poor areas of Russia, and even if they went to school of some sort, it didn't matter much. You think those textbooks mentioned the incident? No. To this day, Chernobyl is a pain point for Russia - f--k knows why because it didn't even happen there. When HBO's Chernobyl came out, Moscow went into a full-blown hysteria. They released their own show with an alternate version of events, where the whole explosion was a CIA operation. So, no - they didn't know. That's 100% plausible.
- mepian 3y ago
  That hysteria wasn't caused by the ignorance of Russia's population. Everyone knew about the disaster for a long time. I know this because I lived there until recently.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - CamperBob2 3y ago
    Russia's a big place. Rest assured, as an American, I could find plenty of Americans who have no idea what happened at Chernobyl or why it would make a less-than-five-star campground.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - rewmie 3y ago
    > Everyone knew about the disaster for a long time. I think you're falling into the mistake everyone is like you, and has access to the info you had access to. In the meantime, there is plenty of documented evidence that Russian soldiers who were ordered to move into Ukraine were totally oblivious to the area they were occupying. There are even comical reports from the start of the war on how Ukraine thwarted the advance of some Russian columns towards Kyiv by switching road signs.
8organicbits 3y ago
Removing or altering location signs[1] in a war zone is common but I wonder if that extends to safety signs [2]. There are many there, as far as I can tell. You probably don't want an army accidentally walking though a place like that and spreading radiation to the locals. Given the poaching and looting concerns, I'd guess the sign coverage is quite dense. Anyone visit before? [1] https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44492/ukrainians-are-manipulating-road-signs-to-confuse-russian-invaders https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44492/ukrainians-are-m... [2] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=entry+to+chernobyl+exclusion+zone+signs&t=fpas&ia=images&iax=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=entry+to+chernobyl+exclusion+zone+...
newsclues 3y ago
Lots of the Russian soldiers come from regions without widespread indoor plumbing, to put some perspective to how backward and disconnected some people are.
- myth_drannon 3y ago
  Don't see how a country's infrastructure issues are related to people backwardeness. The same people who use outhouses probably also have smartphones. It's like saying people who live in remote Canadian villages without road access are backward.
  - yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
    Russia doesn’t work like that. The level of brainwashing and propaganda in the terrorist state of russia is truly staggering. Owning a smartphone isn’t a magical key to free access of objective truth, and even if it was, it certainly doesn’t intrinsically provide motivation for average babushka to go and seek information that contradicts the narrative that they themselves need to believe to continue to have a sense of identity.
  - Moldoteck 3y ago
    Oh man, in my experience having a smartphone doesn't say anything about ppl intelligence and the level of their education. There are some extremely poor regions in Russia and in those regions education system is also usually poor, bc good teachers migrated to better regions
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    Do you think the average person in Nunavut knows about Chernobyl? I’m somewhat skeptical but I spend time out there once in a while, I’ll have to ask.
  - newsclues 3y ago
    Infrastructure like communications network for self study or schools for learning are limited.
pmontra 3y ago
I won't underestimate the ignorance of young people about anything happened before they started to realize that the world is larger than their home. This is about all generations. And specifically: > Everyone knows about Chernobyl. And everyone knows about Tienanmen, the difference in what they know is made by the country where they live. Compare this poll from 2019 with the expected values from Western Europe where probably 100% learned it from the news, for many many days. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1040923/how-russians-learned-about-the-chernobyl-catastrophe/#:~:text=About%2060%20percent%20of%20the,about%20the%20catastophe%20from%20documentaries https://www.statista.com/statistics/1040923/how-russians-lea.... The poll is a bit strange though because despite asking how did they learn of the disaster "at its moment of occurrence" they list internet, social media, books and movies. BTW, the Chernobyl TV series was not available on general TV in Russia AFAIK.
- zerocrates 3y ago
  It's just a terrible title. The question was "On April 26, 1986, there was an explosion at the nuclear power plant in Chernobyl. How did you learn about this accident?"
  - pmontra 3y ago
    If that was the question, how it comes that 33% answered one of From documentary films From social media and the Internet From fictional films/ TV shows From books Already books, films, social media and the internet on the very first day of the accident? Fiction, maybe.
    - zerocrates 3y ago
      The key here is that the question doesn't actually ask "how did you hear about it on the day of the accident," but "how did you hear about it"? Just the title of the graphic says that, incorrectly. It's a poll that includes 18-year-olds done in 2019, it's clearly not intended to be only asking about the moment of the incident.

Everyone knows about Chernobyl. Most likely what they didn't know was where they are. I saw too many videos of soldiers asking locals for directions in the first days of war.

shagie 3y ago

Looking for some pre 2020 content about Russia and Chernobyl... https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nunn-lugar-russia-programs/2019-08-15/top-secret-chernobyl-nuclear-disaster-through-eyes-soviet-politburo-kgb-us-intelligence https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nunn-lugar-russia-pr... > Documents from the highest levels of the Soviet Union, including notes, protocols and diaries of Politburo sessions in the immediate aftermath of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster in 1986, detail a sequence of cover-up, revelation, shock, mobilization, individual bravery, and bureaucratic turf battles in the Soviet reaction, according to the “Top Secret Chernobyl” e-book published today by the National Security Archive. > Key sources include protocols of the Politburo Operational Group on Chernobyl that were published in Russian by the journalist and former Supreme Soviet deputy Alla Yaroshinskaya in 1992. The posting today begins with Yaroshinskaya’s essay (written exclusively for this publication) reviewing the Chernobyl story and her own efforts dating back to 1986 to document and expose the lies and the secrecy that surrounded the disaster. https://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/tv/a27787022/chernobyl-russian-response/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/tv/a27787022/cherno... > "The fact that an American, not a Russian, TV channel tells us about our own heroes is a source of shame that the pro-Kremlin media apparently cannot live down," Shepelin writes. How the Soviet Union stayed silent during the Chernobyl disaster - https://wapo.st/3shRS4M https://wapo.st/3shRS4M > Information inside Russia was sparse, too. Russian residents and even some officials were left unaware that the accident had occurred. In the news reports that trickled out, Soviet media stated that nuclear accidents like Chernobyl were "virtually impossible." > ... > The Soviet Union's refusal to release any information speaks to the mentality of the Kremlin. Perhaps the best explanation of trying to make sense of this mentality came from Ellen Goodman writing in 1988, shortly after the accident: > Exactly a year ago, in Moscow, I had a conversation with a young journalist who acted as interpreter. After a session with three bureaucrats, which bored him as much me, we went to a local coffee shop and talked about journalism and censorship. > Andre was among the elite of his Soviet generation. He was informed about America -- down to our frequent-flyer coupons -- and not reflexively defensive about the Soviet system. Yet, at one point, animatedly debating our countries' attitudes toward information, he reached for this analogy, "In the U.S.S.R. we do not tell a patient if he has cancer. Many times we treat people like they are children to be protected." > And in many ways, those living in the Soviet Union at the time would have agreed. --- While I can't say for certain, the reporting suggests that there is a deliberate willingness to collectively forget about Chernobyl within Russia.

mepian 3y ago
As someone born in Russia, I can assure you that since the 1980s everyone in Russia became well aware of Chernobyl. In my oblast there were furious protests against the construction of a nuclear power plant, and Chernobyl was likely their main cause. My parents told me some horror stories about the cleanup crew of Chernobyl when I was a kid.
- tguvot 3y ago
  as somebody who born in russia you can't represent everybodies in russia knowledge. in case you don't watch them, go watch some of zolkin videos where he asks russian solders questions about history and ukraine. very enlightening
  - mepian 3y ago
    Sure, you can always cherry-pick someone from a remote village so this can't be literally "everybody", but it's absurd to claim that the majority of the population doesn't know about Chernobyl. It was a very hot topic in Russia for a long time, and in the 90s the government lost control over the information space of the country so the information about Chernobyl was spreading freely. The younger generations can learn about the topic from either their parents, or from pop culture things like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and even HBO's miniseries (freely available on Russian torrent trackers that are quite popular).
    - tguvot 3y ago
      Sure, you can always cherry-pick someone from major city so this can't be literally "everybody", but it's absurd to claim that the majority of the population knows about Chernobyl. For christ sakes, as you state, there is a whole new generation that was born after 2000 in russia. 90s are out and there is control of information> it doesn't matter that they can learn about this topic from internet or hbo or stalker (yes, sure, all gamers will assume that game is based on real events). if they are not taught about it, they won't know. did you see new history books in russia btw that were published a couple of weeks ago ? do you see the new versions of history been on tv ? the laws about spreading "false information about ussr in wwII" ?

renegade-otter 3y ago

You underestimate Russia's induced ignorance about Chernobyl. Most of these 20-year-olds were from remote, shit-poor areas of Russia, and even if they went to school of some sort, it didn't matter much. You think those textbooks mentioned the incident? No. To this day, Chernobyl is a pain point for Russia - f--k knows why because it didn't even happen there. When HBO's Chernobyl came out, Moscow went into a full-blown hysteria. They released their own show with an alternate version of events, where the whole explosion was a CIA operation. So, no - they didn't know. That's 100% plausible.

mepian 3y ago
That hysteria wasn't caused by the ignorance of Russia's population. Everyone knew about the disaster for a long time. I know this because I lived there until recently.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- CamperBob2 3y ago
  Russia's a big place. Rest assured, as an American, I could find plenty of Americans who have no idea what happened at Chernobyl or why it would make a less-than-five-star campground.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- rewmie 3y ago
  > Everyone knew about the disaster for a long time. I think you're falling into the mistake everyone is like you, and has access to the info you had access to. In the meantime, there is plenty of documented evidence that Russian soldiers who were ordered to move into Ukraine were totally oblivious to the area they were occupying. There are even comical reports from the start of the war on how Ukraine thwarted the advance of some Russian columns towards Kyiv by switching road signs.

8organicbits 3y ago

Removing or altering location signs[1] in a war zone is common but I wonder if that extends to safety signs [2]. There are many there, as far as I can tell. You probably don't want an army accidentally walking though a place like that and spreading radiation to the locals. Given the poaching and looting concerns, I'd guess the sign coverage is quite dense. Anyone visit before? [1] https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44492/ukrainians-are-manipulating-road-signs-to-confuse-russian-invaders https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44492/ukrainians-are-m... [2] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=entry+to+chernobyl+exclusion+zone+signs&t=fpas&ia=images&iax=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=entry+to+chernobyl+exclusion+zone+...

newsclues 3y ago

Lots of the Russian soldiers come from regions without widespread indoor plumbing, to put some perspective to how backward and disconnected some people are.

myth_drannon 3y ago
Don't see how a country's infrastructure issues are related to people backwardeness. The same people who use outhouses probably also have smartphones. It's like saying people who live in remote Canadian villages without road access are backward.
- yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
  Russia doesn’t work like that. The level of brainwashing and propaganda in the terrorist state of russia is truly staggering. Owning a smartphone isn’t a magical key to free access of objective truth, and even if it was, it certainly doesn’t intrinsically provide motivation for average babushka to go and seek information that contradicts the narrative that they themselves need to believe to continue to have a sense of identity.
- Moldoteck 3y ago
  Oh man, in my experience having a smartphone doesn't say anything about ppl intelligence and the level of their education. There are some extremely poor regions in Russia and in those regions education system is also usually poor, bc good teachers migrated to better regions
- arcticbull 3y ago
  Do you think the average person in Nunavut knows about Chernobyl? I’m somewhat skeptical but I spend time out there once in a while, I’ll have to ask.
- newsclues 3y ago
  Infrastructure like communications network for self study or schools for learning are limited.

pmontra 3y ago

I won't underestimate the ignorance of young people about anything happened before they started to realize that the world is larger than their home. This is about all generations. And specifically: > Everyone knows about Chernobyl. And everyone knows about Tienanmen, the difference in what they know is made by the country where they live. Compare this poll from 2019 with the expected values from Western Europe where probably 100% learned it from the news, for many many days. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1040923/how-russians-learned-about-the-chernobyl-catastrophe/#:~:text=About%2060%20percent%20of%20the,about%20the%20catastophe%20from%20documentaries https://www.statista.com/statistics/1040923/how-russians-lea.... The poll is a bit strange though because despite asking how did they learn of the disaster "at its moment of occurrence" they list internet, social media, books and movies. BTW, the Chernobyl TV series was not available on general TV in Russia AFAIK.

zerocrates 3y ago
It's just a terrible title. The question was "On April 26, 1986, there was an explosion at the nuclear power plant in Chernobyl. How did you learn about this accident?"
- pmontra 3y ago
  If that was the question, how it comes that 33% answered one of From documentary films From social media and the Internet From fictional films/ TV shows From books Already books, films, social media and the internet on the very first day of the accident? Fiction, maybe.
  - zerocrates 3y ago
    The key here is that the question doesn't actually ask "how did you hear about it on the day of the accident," but "how did you hear about it"? Just the title of the graphic says that, incorrectly. It's a poll that includes 18-year-olds done in 2019, it's clearly not intended to be only asking about the moment of the incident.