5 ms·

“His tax bracket is say 50%” Even for HN this level of delusion is rare.

fsckboy 3y ago
Sorry, dude, but am an UHNW individual, my income comes from investments, and year in year out I pay about 50% in tax (don't forget state and city income tax, and alternative minimum wipes out long term capital gain favoritism)
- wddkcs 3y ago
  You need to get more money, then youll be able to avoid those taxes, seems to be the point. Paradise Papers leak reveals secrets of the world elite's hidden wealth https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/05/paradise-papers-leak-reveals-secrets-of-world-elites-hidden-wealth https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/05/paradise-papers...
  - fsckboy 3y ago
    I pursue an investment strategy that would make those tricks highly risky, and or inconvenient. The tradeoff is that I believe I make more money the way I'm doing it, including the taxes I pay.
    - wddkcs 3y ago
      Yes I'm sure you're too well vested to be caught in the affairs of the world's richest.
  - jimnotgym 3y ago
    It is worth remembering that this doesn't have to be the case. The governments of the world could stop much of this tax avoidance if they had the will.
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  Surely the most wealthy are not paying 50% income tax on their annual increase in net wealth (see what I did there)? When there are so many ways to avoid it.
  - fsckboy 3y ago
    income is realized capital gains, not unrealized, and "increase in net wealth" doesn't mean anything. see what I did there? used the words for what they mean.
    - quickthrower2 3y ago
      Exactly my point! Rich people can control how much income their investments pay, and ideally they aim for growth not income which can compound forever without paying any tax. Because they are rich they have no need to sell most of the investments and so can defer paying tax forever. On the other hand poor people have no tax-free compounding subsidy and have to pay tax on every hour of labour they do.
      - oneshtein 3y ago
        What we can do with these poor drunkers? Can we tax them to death?
  - fallingknife 3y ago
    Why would they pay a tax on that? You don't.
    - hgsgm 3y ago
      They can convert it to income via loans, tax-free.
      - fallingknife 3y ago
        Loans aren't income. When you get a mortgage is that income? Also anyone with a brokerage account can get one of those loans. It's not remotely exclusive to rich people.
- monero-xmr 3y ago
  It’s exhausting arguing about this on HN or any other forum. You are in a tiny yet crucial minority, at least from the perspective of taxpayers as the 1% pay the majority of all taxes. The best part about America, and playing by the rules of America and avoiding sketchy offshore nonsense, is that you can trust the law will treat you fairly. That is the simple secret of success for America’s entire existence, along with a decentralized government that makes power diffuse and a paranoid streak that infuses the populace with distrust of authority. Live quietly, don’t be a public figure, and you can enjoy your (b/m)illions without serious socialist threat.
  - Epa095 3y ago
    >as the 1% pay the majority of all taxes. I am sorry for jumping in the middle of the discussion (which you seemed to want to quit :-P) but this statement seems to weird to not check out. After looking into it a bit it SEEMS like it's only true under a very certain reading: - "The 1%" must refer to the 1% with the highest income, and not the 1% richest, since the actual super rich don't really (often) have registerd income at all. So it's not top 1% richest, but the top 1% of the wage receivers. How much does the richest actually tax? No clue. - Even when it refers to the top % of wage slaves, it is still wrong for "taxes", but true for "federal income tax" only. According to [1] the top 1% made ca 21% of the money, and payed 24% of the total tax burden. So not the majority. 1: https://itep.org/who-pays-taxes-in-america-in-2019/ https://itep.org/who-pays-taxes-in-america-in-2019/
    - kaashif 3y ago
      You seem to use wage receiver and wage slave interchangeably. The top 1% of wage receivers include people in literally millions of dollars per year who cannot reasonably be described as wage slaves.
      - Epa095 3y ago
        True, most of them have probably accumulated so much wealth that they work because they want to, and can quit at any time. They still don't contribute the majority of the taxes though;-)
- hgsgm 3y ago
  All that money and here is where you waste your most precious resource, time?
endisneigh 3y ago
What? It’s very easy to be in the 50% range all in. Live in Manhattan and make a million in W2 wages, boom there you go. Despite all the heeing and hawing, rich people do pay a ton of taxes. It’s mainly the one percent of the one percent you hear about that can structure both their income and lifestyle in a way where they pay less than say someone making 50k in taxes as a percentage.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  > Live in Manhattan and make a million in W2 wages, boom there you go. In what universe is a hedge fund manager making W2 wages?

Sorry, dude, but am an UHNW individual, my income comes from investments, and year in year out I pay about 50% in tax (don't forget state and city income tax, and alternative minimum wipes out long term capital gain favoritism)

wddkcs 3y ago
You need to get more money, then youll be able to avoid those taxes, seems to be the point. Paradise Papers leak reveals secrets of the world elite's hidden wealth https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/05/paradise-papers-leak-reveals-secrets-of-world-elites-hidden-wealth https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/05/paradise-papers...
- fsckboy 3y ago
  I pursue an investment strategy that would make those tricks highly risky, and or inconvenient. The tradeoff is that I believe I make more money the way I'm doing it, including the taxes I pay.
  - wddkcs 3y ago
    Yes I'm sure you're too well vested to be caught in the affairs of the world's richest.
- jimnotgym 3y ago
  It is worth remembering that this doesn't have to be the case. The governments of the world could stop much of this tax avoidance if they had the will.
quickthrower2 3y ago
Surely the most wealthy are not paying 50% income tax on their annual increase in net wealth (see what I did there)? When there are so many ways to avoid it.
- fsckboy 3y ago
  income is realized capital gains, not unrealized, and "increase in net wealth" doesn't mean anything. see what I did there? used the words for what they mean.
  - quickthrower2 3y ago
    Exactly my point! Rich people can control how much income their investments pay, and ideally they aim for growth not income which can compound forever without paying any tax. Because they are rich they have no need to sell most of the investments and so can defer paying tax forever. On the other hand poor people have no tax-free compounding subsidy and have to pay tax on every hour of labour they do.
    - oneshtein 3y ago
      What we can do with these poor drunkers? Can we tax them to death?
- fallingknife 3y ago
  Why would they pay a tax on that? You don't.
  - hgsgm 3y ago
    They can convert it to income via loans, tax-free.
    - fallingknife 3y ago
      Loans aren't income. When you get a mortgage is that income? Also anyone with a brokerage account can get one of those loans. It's not remotely exclusive to rich people.
monero-xmr 3y ago
It’s exhausting arguing about this on HN or any other forum. You are in a tiny yet crucial minority, at least from the perspective of taxpayers as the 1% pay the majority of all taxes. The best part about America, and playing by the rules of America and avoiding sketchy offshore nonsense, is that you can trust the law will treat you fairly. That is the simple secret of success for America’s entire existence, along with a decentralized government that makes power diffuse and a paranoid streak that infuses the populace with distrust of authority. Live quietly, don’t be a public figure, and you can enjoy your (b/m)illions without serious socialist threat.
- Epa095 3y ago
  >as the 1% pay the majority of all taxes. I am sorry for jumping in the middle of the discussion (which you seemed to want to quit :-P) but this statement seems to weird to not check out. After looking into it a bit it SEEMS like it's only true under a very certain reading: - "The 1%" must refer to the 1% with the highest income, and not the 1% richest, since the actual super rich don't really (often) have registerd income at all. So it's not top 1% richest, but the top 1% of the wage receivers. How much does the richest actually tax? No clue. - Even when it refers to the top % of wage slaves, it is still wrong for "taxes", but true for "federal income tax" only. According to [1] the top 1% made ca 21% of the money, and payed 24% of the total tax burden. So not the majority. 1: https://itep.org/who-pays-taxes-in-america-in-2019/ https://itep.org/who-pays-taxes-in-america-in-2019/
  - kaashif 3y ago
    You seem to use wage receiver and wage slave interchangeably. The top 1% of wage receivers include people in literally millions of dollars per year who cannot reasonably be described as wage slaves.
    - Epa095 3y ago
      True, most of them have probably accumulated so much wealth that they work because they want to, and can quit at any time. They still don't contribute the majority of the taxes though;-)
hgsgm 3y ago
All that money and here is where you waste your most precious resource, time?

endisneigh 3y ago

What? It’s very easy to be in the 50% range all in. Live in Manhattan and make a million in W2 wages, boom there you go. Despite all the heeing and hawing, rich people do pay a ton of taxes. It’s mainly the one percent of the one percent you hear about that can structure both their income and lifestyle in a way where they pay less than say someone making 50k in taxes as a percentage.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
> Live in Manhattan and make a million in W2 wages, boom there you go. In what universe is a hedge fund manager making W2 wages?