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The USA was distrustful of national ID cards decades before the current level of hyperpartisan rancor. We just don’t the government enough to let them track us

The USA was distrustful of national ID cards decades before the current level of hyperpartisan rancor. We just don’t the government enough to let them track us everywhere. Not that the current climate helps. The REAL ID Act of 2005 has been delayed so many times, now to 2025. Maybe we should just repeal it instead.

xp84 3y ago
> We just don’t the government enough to let them track us everywhere. That statement is both true and emblematic of the problem. Everyone is so cynical that a clean public-key, offline, certificate-based solution, with an absolute zero visibility to the government of who is doing what, would always be assumed to be part of some nefarious Illuminati/Democrat/Republican plot. Proving it to people with technical tests wouldn't prove it. They'll always be convinced. What we need from the government is so minimal really, just to sign certificates if we prove our identity. But it'll never happen in the US due to the distrust situation.
- jimmydorry 3y ago
  Because there has never been a proposal for a "clean public-key / offline / certificate-based solution". It's always a central database that also does x and y and will be available for w and z departments to do as they will with it.
  - xp84 3y ago
    It doesn’t matter though, because the percentage of Americans who can understand public key crypto even in a vague way sufficient to critically read a technical analysis and judge it to be true, you could count on one hand. Nobody has proposed it because if any politicians have seen such a proposal on their desks, even if they themselves grasp it (unlikely), they know most Americans would freak out on principle.
- mindslight 3y ago
  Why are you talking about hypotheticals and abstract "distrust" ? We're already being harmed by existing central ID systems - social security numbers and drivers license numbers - with little hope for reform in sight. If there were something like the GDPR that prohibited companies from nonconsensually demanding, storing, or using these identifiers for anything but their bona fide governmental functions, then it might make sense to talk about adding a new system. But until the government is capable of reigning in abuse of the existing systems, any new identification system would inevitably be a gift to the surveillance companies.
sangnoir 3y ago
> The REAL ID Act of 2005 has been delayed so many times, now to 2025 Can one fly without a REAL-ID-compliant license or ID?
- dgoldstein0 3y ago
  Yes, with a passport you can ... Probably not what you were trying to ask. I thought the deadline passed for using real ID for TSA but I haven't looked for that info in years
  - marcus0x62 3y ago
    The deadline has been pushed to May 7, 2025.
photonerd 3y ago
> We just don’t the government enough to let them track us everywhere. Eh, that’s the pseudo-libertarian objection (which is… dumb as bricks, practically speaking) but the most common objection is one of access. Until IDs are both free AND easy to obtain in the US (if you think they are, congrats: you’re in the lucky group) then a national id scheme will always be a non-starter. IDs face the same problem voting has in recent years (and historically): the systems of power use limiting access as a tool to control those they don’t like.

xp84 3y ago

> We just don’t the government enough to let them track us everywhere. That statement is both true and emblematic of the problem. Everyone is so cynical that a clean public-key, offline, certificate-based solution, with an absolute zero visibility to the government of who is doing what, would always be assumed to be part of some nefarious Illuminati/Democrat/Republican plot. Proving it to people with technical tests wouldn't prove it. They'll always be convinced. What we need from the government is so minimal really, just to sign certificates if we prove our identity. But it'll never happen in the US due to the distrust situation.

jimmydorry 3y ago
Because there has never been a proposal for a "clean public-key / offline / certificate-based solution". It's always a central database that also does x and y and will be available for w and z departments to do as they will with it.
- xp84 3y ago
  It doesn’t matter though, because the percentage of Americans who can understand public key crypto even in a vague way sufficient to critically read a technical analysis and judge it to be true, you could count on one hand. Nobody has proposed it because if any politicians have seen such a proposal on their desks, even if they themselves grasp it (unlikely), they know most Americans would freak out on principle.
mindslight 3y ago
Why are you talking about hypotheticals and abstract "distrust" ? We're already being harmed by existing central ID systems - social security numbers and drivers license numbers - with little hope for reform in sight. If there were something like the GDPR that prohibited companies from nonconsensually demanding, storing, or using these identifiers for anything but their bona fide governmental functions, then it might make sense to talk about adding a new system. But until the government is capable of reigning in abuse of the existing systems, any new identification system would inevitably be a gift to the surveillance companies.

sangnoir 3y ago

> The REAL ID Act of 2005 has been delayed so many times, now to 2025 Can one fly without a REAL-ID-compliant license or ID?

dgoldstein0 3y ago
Yes, with a passport you can ... Probably not what you were trying to ask. I thought the deadline passed for using real ID for TSA but I haven't looked for that info in years
- marcus0x62 3y ago
  The deadline has been pushed to May 7, 2025.

photonerd 3y ago

> We just don’t the government enough to let them track us everywhere. Eh, that’s the pseudo-libertarian objection (which is… dumb as bricks, practically speaking) but the most common objection is one of access. Until IDs are both free AND easy to obtain in the US (if you think they are, congrats: you’re in the lucky group) then a national id scheme will always be a non-starter. IDs face the same problem voting has in recent years (and historically): the systems of power use limiting access as a tool to control those they don’t like.