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I don't care about a single one of those. Computers exist to solve problems, not to be compliant with a particular philosophy. The appeals to Unix philosophy,

I don't care about a single one of those. Computers exist to solve problems, not to be compliant with a particular philosophy. The appeals to Unix philosophy, dogma about how logs should be stored, etc, are all completely irrelevant to me. I don't run Linux because it fulfills an ideology but because it does a job. Also, journald is actually extremely nice. Of all the complaints, I don't really get some people's love for text log files. They're an inferior technology, and rather silly when you think of it. For anything but the most trivial tasks, we have to parse them. Which means we're expending the effort to take some well structured inner state, often cut off a chunk of it (eg, remove milliseconds from timestamps), often convert it to a hard to machine read format (eg, human readable dates), and then proceed to try to reverse this process. This is nuts.

quicklime 3y ago
The “Unix philosophy” is a core part of the user interface to Unix systems. You might not care about this yourself, but I’d bet that most people do care about UI consistency.
- dale_glass 3y ago
  Right now I'm looking at this in Firefox in KDE. I'm not sure what "one thing" either of those does. Neither deals with plain text in a terminal. But if you want a comfortable commandline UI, I'd say journalctl does the job far better than grepping log files. And heck, it outputs text so you can still grep that if you really want to.
  - jraph 3y ago
    KDE, for one, is a big bag of specialized tools, built using a set of libraries that are also very modular. But I agree with your general view.
- SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
  The Systemd project largely follows the "Unix philosophy" anyway. Lots of sub-tools, each doing one thing well. It's a bit like complaining that the GNU coreutils don't follow the "Unix philosophy".
- 112233 3y ago
  For almost any arguments against systemd, you can replace "systemd" with "linux kernel" and it still will be a valid argument, yet I have not seen many opponents of linux kernel on these grounds. As an example: monolith, single project, includes a lot of functionality that should be separate, invents conventions, crash takes down all system... Yet nobody in my memory has gone "kernel includes JIT compiler, let us boycott"

quicklime 3y ago

The “Unix philosophy” is a core part of the user interface to Unix systems. You might not care about this yourself, but I’d bet that most people do care about UI consistency.

dale_glass 3y ago
Right now I'm looking at this in Firefox in KDE. I'm not sure what "one thing" either of those does. Neither deals with plain text in a terminal. But if you want a comfortable commandline UI, I'd say journalctl does the job far better than grepping log files. And heck, it outputs text so you can still grep that if you really want to.
- jraph 3y ago
  KDE, for one, is a big bag of specialized tools, built using a set of libraries that are also very modular. But I agree with your general view.
SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
The Systemd project largely follows the "Unix philosophy" anyway. Lots of sub-tools, each doing one thing well. It's a bit like complaining that the GNU coreutils don't follow the "Unix philosophy".
112233 3y ago
For almost any arguments against systemd, you can replace "systemd" with "linux kernel" and it still will be a valid argument, yet I have not seen many opponents of linux kernel on these grounds. As an example: monolith, single project, includes a lot of functionality that should be separate, invents conventions, crash takes down all system... Yet nobody in my memory has gone "kernel includes JIT compiler, let us boycott"