4 ms·

Yes. People also voluntarily give up their civil rights and are duped into unreasonable debts. How often do you read the ToS for most of the services you consum

by boh 3y ago

Yes. People also voluntarily give up their civil rights and are duped into unreasonable debts. How often do you read the ToS for most of the services you consume? Consumer protections operate in the understanding that people cannot be expected to know the intricacies of all the various laws and agreements that may negatively impact them should they agree to terms when consuming a good or service.

olalonde 3y ago
How were they harmed by this? And why shouldn't people be free to voluntarily share a scan of their iris with other people?
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Apologies for butting in, but I don't think you are arguing in good faith here. How about we change the angle a bit: why do you think this happened in Kenya and not in Germany?
  - junofan 3y ago
    I believe Worldcoin is live in Germany. Also, it’s kind of unreasonable to expect a startup to pull off a global launch without a hitch. Assuming good faith, I suspect issues will be resolved over time.
    - FireBeyond 3y ago
      Yes, that's entirely why they've gone into mostly developing countries (I'd think it'd be easier for a startup to pull of a global launch focusing on more developed countries, for a variety of reasons) offering people almost a week's salary to have their eyeball scanned (Kenya's average monthly salary is USD$420, and Worldcoin was offering effectively $70 to sign up).
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Two EU countries are already investigating them (France and Germany).
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      > Assuming good faith The tech industry in general lost the "benefit of the doubt" years ago. That's not WC's fault, but WC could have mitigated some of that if they at least put some effort into not appearing shady. Particularly since they're connected to cryptocurrency, which is one of the scummier segments of the industry to begin with.
  - olalonde 3y ago
    To be clear, I don't personally endorse Worldcoin and am not an investor, nor do I have particular admiration for Sam Altman. I just fundamentally question the notion of "victimless" crimes. In my view, consensual transactions between adults shouldn't be illegal and it seems to me that this is what is occurring here. As to why this is happening in Kenya, I wouldn't be surprised if they failed to "persuade" the right bureaucrats (a problem that many African entrepreneurs face[0]). According to Reuters, Worldcoin is currently "orbing" in 20 countries by the way[1]. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqD3QbzSsIs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqD3QbzSsIs [1] https://www.reuters.com/technology/openais-sam-altman-launches-worldcoin-crypto-project-2023-07-24/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/openais-sam-altman-launch...
    - soligern 3y ago
      At one point in the 70s, the Indian government started offering people money to voluntarily get sterilized. These people didn’t have a free choice in the matter, their situation in life compelled them, in this particular case financially. It’s not an infringement of someone’s freedom, rather an exploitation of the poor situation that individual is already in.
      - olalonde 3y ago
        Why call this situation an "exploitation" when all parties involved are better off from the transaction? And if it is truly a "life or death" situation, how is it moral to ban a life saving option? If Kenyans are getting life-saving money in exchange for their iris scan, how is banning this arrangement helping them? Aren't they in a better position than you, or government bureaucrats, to judge what is best for them?
- boh 3y ago
  I think it's entirely possible that the random opinion of a person who is not involved, nor a resident of the country in question may not need to supersede what is possibly an informed decision on the part of Kenyan officials. While it's fashionable to assume non-Anglo countries operate exclusively within the context of corruption and ignorance, Kenya has the right to secure its own values over the hopes and dreams of Silicon Valley.

by boh 3y ago

olalonde 3y ago

How were they harmed by this? And why shouldn't people be free to voluntarily share a scan of their iris with other people?

jacquesm 3y ago
Apologies for butting in, but I don't think you are arguing in good faith here. How about we change the angle a bit: why do you think this happened in Kenya and not in Germany?
- junofan 3y ago
  I believe Worldcoin is live in Germany. Also, it’s kind of unreasonable to expect a startup to pull off a global launch without a hitch. Assuming good faith, I suspect issues will be resolved over time.
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    Yes, that's entirely why they've gone into mostly developing countries (I'd think it'd be easier for a startup to pull of a global launch focusing on more developed countries, for a variety of reasons) offering people almost a week's salary to have their eyeball scanned (Kenya's average monthly salary is USD$420, and Worldcoin was offering effectively $70 to sign up).
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Two EU countries are already investigating them (France and Germany).
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > Assuming good faith The tech industry in general lost the "benefit of the doubt" years ago. That's not WC's fault, but WC could have mitigated some of that if they at least put some effort into not appearing shady. Particularly since they're connected to cryptocurrency, which is one of the scummier segments of the industry to begin with.
- olalonde 3y ago
  To be clear, I don't personally endorse Worldcoin and am not an investor, nor do I have particular admiration for Sam Altman. I just fundamentally question the notion of "victimless" crimes. In my view, consensual transactions between adults shouldn't be illegal and it seems to me that this is what is occurring here. As to why this is happening in Kenya, I wouldn't be surprised if they failed to "persuade" the right bureaucrats (a problem that many African entrepreneurs face[0]). According to Reuters, Worldcoin is currently "orbing" in 20 countries by the way[1]. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqD3QbzSsIs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqD3QbzSsIs [1] https://www.reuters.com/technology/openais-sam-altman-launches-worldcoin-crypto-project-2023-07-24/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/openais-sam-altman-launch...
  - soligern 3y ago
    At one point in the 70s, the Indian government started offering people money to voluntarily get sterilized. These people didn’t have a free choice in the matter, their situation in life compelled them, in this particular case financially. It’s not an infringement of someone’s freedom, rather an exploitation of the poor situation that individual is already in.
    - olalonde 3y ago
      Why call this situation an "exploitation" when all parties involved are better off from the transaction? And if it is truly a "life or death" situation, how is it moral to ban a life saving option? If Kenyans are getting life-saving money in exchange for their iris scan, how is banning this arrangement helping them? Aren't they in a better position than you, or government bureaucrats, to judge what is best for them?
boh 3y ago
I think it's entirely possible that the random opinion of a person who is not involved, nor a resident of the country in question may not need to supersede what is possibly an informed decision on the part of Kenyan officials. While it's fashionable to assume non-Anglo countries operate exclusively within the context of corruption and ignorance, Kenya has the right to secure its own values over the hopes and dreams of Silicon Valley.