4 ms·

In the midwest there's no water shortage (the Mississippi and Missouri are not going to get exhausted), but it's relatively expensive, for now, to pipe that wat

In the midwest there's no water shortage (the Mississippi and Missouri are not going to get exhausted), but it's relatively expensive, for now, to pipe that water onto corn to protect against a drought every 1 of 5 years.

ceejayoz 3y ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/27/opinion/environment/mississippi-river-drought-colorado.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/27/opinion/environment/missi... > Last month, record low water levels in the Mississippi River backed up nearly 3,000 barges — the equivalent of 210,000 container trucks — on America’s most important inland waterway. Despite frantic dredging, farmers could move only half the corn they’d shipped the same time last year. Deliveries of fuel, coal, industrial chemicals and building materials were similarly delayed throughout the nation’s heartland. > This critical river and its tributaries — responsible for transporting more than $17 billion worth of farm products and 60 percent of all U.S. corn and soybean exports annually — has been stricken by drought since September, amid a time of global grain shortage and soaring food prices. While water levels will recover modestly this week, thanks to some upstream rain and snow, the long-term forecast remains dry.
- justrealist 3y ago
  Yes, the river was low because there was a drought. Your quote does nothing to suggest that expanded irrigation would make a dent in the river level, be it high or low.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    "There's no water shortage", but "there was a drought"? Define drought for me.
    - justrealist 3y ago
      > the Mississippi and Missouri are not going to get exhausted I feel like you are playing dumb here. No amount of agriculture will meaningfully lower the river level. That's the point in question. That's what I'm saying.
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1936-704X.2017.03264.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1936-704X... > The Lower Mississippi River Basin (LMRB) is an internationally-important region of intensive agricultural crop production that relies heavily on the underlying Mississippi River Valley Alluvial Aquifer (MRVAA) for irrigation. Extensive irrigation coupled with the region’s geology have led to significant aquifer decline. https://www.fs.usda.gov/research/news/highlights/mitigating-groundwater-depletion-mississippi-embayment https://www.fs.usda.gov/research/news/highlights/mitigating-... > Groundwater depletion is a serious concern in Mississippi and worldwide. Agricultural crop production in the Mississippi Delta requires irrigation, and that water use has led to severe groundwater depletion. Converting crop land to forests through afforestation can conserve water resources, improve water quality, and mitigate river floods.
        Zamicol 3y ago
        Not the commenter. Aquifer != river. The overuse of aquifers is common knowledge. The commenter is making a narrow point about the river. I would like to see a response directly speaking to their concern, not something that is adjacent and common knowledge.
        justrealist 3y ago
        Yes. And as a point of reference for the scales involved: > Since major groundwater pumping began in the late 1940s, overdraft from the High Plains Aquifer has amounted to 332,000,000 acre-feet (410 km3), 85% of the volume of Lake Erie. [1] > The Mississippi River passes more than 240 million acre-feet annually at the proposed point of diversion, 30 miles south of Cairo, Ill. During the current flooding, more than 4 million acre-feet per day are flowing at that spot… [2] The water in the Mississippi river could each year replace all 80 years of overpumping of the aquifer. So with 1-2% water diversion (like I said, not exhausting the river), you could easily substitute that volumetrically. For 5% you could massively irrigate the midwest. These are truly massive rivers. People in the west don't understand how enormous they are compared to the Colorado and other western rivers. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer#:~:text=Since%20major%20groundwater%20pumping%20began,the%20volume%20of%20Lake%20Erie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer#:~:text=Since.... [2] https://coyotegulch.blog/2011/05/19/pipeline-from-the-mississippi-river-to-colorado/ https://coyotegulch.blog/2011/05/19/pipeline-from-the-missis...

ceejayoz 3y ago

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/27/opinion/environment/mississippi-river-drought-colorado.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/27/opinion/environment/missi... > Last month, record low water levels in the Mississippi River backed up nearly 3,000 barges — the equivalent of 210,000 container trucks — on America’s most important inland waterway. Despite frantic dredging, farmers could move only half the corn they’d shipped the same time last year. Deliveries of fuel, coal, industrial chemicals and building materials were similarly delayed throughout the nation’s heartland. > This critical river and its tributaries — responsible for transporting more than $17 billion worth of farm products and 60 percent of all U.S. corn and soybean exports annually — has been stricken by drought since September, amid a time of global grain shortage and soaring food prices. While water levels will recover modestly this week, thanks to some upstream rain and snow, the long-term forecast remains dry.

justrealist 3y ago
Yes, the river was low because there was a drought. Your quote does nothing to suggest that expanded irrigation would make a dent in the river level, be it high or low.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  "There's no water shortage", but "there was a drought"? Define drought for me.
  - justrealist 3y ago
    > the Mississippi and Missouri are not going to get exhausted I feel like you are playing dumb here. No amount of agriculture will meaningfully lower the river level. That's the point in question. That's what I'm saying.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1936-704X.2017.03264.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1936-704X... > The Lower Mississippi River Basin (LMRB) is an internationally-important region of intensive agricultural crop production that relies heavily on the underlying Mississippi River Valley Alluvial Aquifer (MRVAA) for irrigation. Extensive irrigation coupled with the region’s geology have led to significant aquifer decline. https://www.fs.usda.gov/research/news/highlights/mitigating-groundwater-depletion-mississippi-embayment https://www.fs.usda.gov/research/news/highlights/mitigating-... > Groundwater depletion is a serious concern in Mississippi and worldwide. Agricultural crop production in the Mississippi Delta requires irrigation, and that water use has led to severe groundwater depletion. Converting crop land to forests through afforestation can conserve water resources, improve water quality, and mitigate river floods.
      - Zamicol 3y ago
        Not the commenter. Aquifer != river. The overuse of aquifers is common knowledge. The commenter is making a narrow point about the river. I would like to see a response directly speaking to their concern, not something that is adjacent and common knowledge.
        justrealist 3y ago
        Yes. And as a point of reference for the scales involved: > Since major groundwater pumping began in the late 1940s, overdraft from the High Plains Aquifer has amounted to 332,000,000 acre-feet (410 km3), 85% of the volume of Lake Erie. [1] > The Mississippi River passes more than 240 million acre-feet annually at the proposed point of diversion, 30 miles south of Cairo, Ill. During the current flooding, more than 4 million acre-feet per day are flowing at that spot… [2] The water in the Mississippi river could each year replace all 80 years of overpumping of the aquifer. So with 1-2% water diversion (like I said, not exhausting the river), you could easily substitute that volumetrically. For 5% you could massively irrigate the midwest. These are truly massive rivers. People in the west don't understand how enormous they are compared to the Colorado and other western rivers. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer#:~:text=Since%20major%20groundwater%20pumping%20began,the%20volume%20of%20Lake%20Erie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer#:~:text=Since.... [2] https://coyotegulch.blog/2011/05/19/pipeline-from-the-mississippi-river-to-colorado/ https://coyotegulch.blog/2011/05/19/pipeline-from-the-missis...