4 ms·

I feel like this is a strawman. I've never met a vegan who wants to "get rid of the animals and just mono-crop the world". Most people advocating plant-based di

I feel like this is a strawman. I've never met a vegan who wants to "get rid of the animals and just mono-crop the world". Most people advocating plant-based diets, that I've seen, have argued that plant-based diets will lead to less land being used for agriculture and livestock. Also lets not pretend that 900 million cattle [1] is a boon to biodiversity. In Point Reyes, Tule Elk are being edged out by cattle farmers, for example [2]: Now she learned that a free-roaming herd of elk had been wandering onto park ranchlands, upsetting cattle ranchers who run cows on leases that cover a third of the seashore’s acreage. The ranchers wanted the elk fenced away from their cows. Oppenheim went home that night and plunged down an internet rabbit hole, reading warnings from environmental groups that the National Park Service (NPS), which manages Point Reyes National Seashore, might shoot the offending animals. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/263979/global-cattle-population-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/263979/global-cattle-pop... [2] https://www.hcn.org/articles/wildlife-the-battle-over-point-reyes-tule-elk https://www.hcn.org/articles/wildlife-the-battle-over-point-...

CameronNemo 3y ago
And more evidence that cattle are a risk to Tule elk, and likely overall biodiversity: Small numbers of tule elk in Point Reyes have tested positive for Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis or "MAP", a wasting disease known as Johne's Disease. The bacteria was apparently transmitted by dairy cattle or spraying of cattle manure on pasturelands. In 2016 more tule elk tested positive after being euthanized so that their gut tissue could be analyzed. Cattle transmitted the disease to the Tomales Point elk herd shortly after they were first established there in 1978. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tule_elk#Historic_range_and_current_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tule_elk#Historic_range_and_cu...
wyldberry 3y ago
No one ever outright says "get rid of animals and mono-crop the world" but that is the reality of what it would take to feed humans on plant based at scale world-wide based on thermodynamics in general. Finding unbiased sources and well-designed studies is hard. When you dig into the research, often you will find that what is written about doesn't match the research. It's quite clear that you can live a healthy life with most calories from plants in some capacity. It's also quite clear that you can do the same with animals. Where it gets dicey is when we get into the specifics about farming methodologies, sustainability, and ethics. This is why i linked to white-oak pastures to give an example of regenerative agriculture practices that are proven to work. What's important is that when we talk about animal consumption that there's a ton of sins by the cattle industry specifically that need to be corrected. Moving to a regenerative agriculture method will lower their profits quite a bit, and they often find it helps their message to misdirect towards the "plant-based" (overloaded term) crowd.. The current battle in Montana between Bison restoration and ranchers versus the cattle industry is a great example [1][2] of how cattle industry behaves. Bison restoration and Bison ranching has taken off in Montana and Idaho. There is abig push to try and restore the natural grasslands and grass species that the Bison grazed on to improve the ecology of the area as a whole. Cattle are not compatible with that plan (imo) in Montana. However, bison are ruminant animals which are the linchpins for keeping the soil healthy enough to grow crop without large petroleum inputs (fertilizer). So 900 million cattle may not be a boon on their own, but if we put environment appropriate ruminants (goats, sheep etc) in the same places we can still perform regenerative agriculture. This topic leans towards heavy nerd snipes because there's so many rabbit holes to go down. For example: of the land that is used for grazing animals, how much of that is suitable for farming the big three (wheat, corn, soy)? Assume that every human is capable of getting enough calories to survive: Are they getting enough bio-available nutrition to meet the minimum needs? What about to perform closer to an optimum of mental and physical capacity? What does it really mean to be nutrient dense? Are we actually able to extract all the nutrients? What about if we started consuming organs again instead of just ribeyes? [1]https://apnews.com/article/health-environment-and-nature-business-government-and-politics-bison-a4f491eb3c2f8abba0dbe41450e0344a https://apnews.com/article/health-environment-and-nature-bus... [2]http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/2/19/yellowstone-farmbillspendingonrarebacteriapitsbisonagainstbeef.html http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/2/19/yellowstone-...

CameronNemo 3y ago

And more evidence that cattle are a risk to Tule elk, and likely overall biodiversity: Small numbers of tule elk in Point Reyes have tested positive for Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis or "MAP", a wasting disease known as Johne's Disease. The bacteria was apparently transmitted by dairy cattle or spraying of cattle manure on pasturelands. In 2016 more tule elk tested positive after being euthanized so that their gut tissue could be analyzed. Cattle transmitted the disease to the Tomales Point elk herd shortly after they were first established there in 1978. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tule_elk#Historic_range_and_current_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tule_elk#Historic_range_and_cu...

wyldberry 3y ago

No one ever outright says "get rid of animals and mono-crop the world" but that is the reality of what it would take to feed humans on plant based at scale world-wide based on thermodynamics in general. Finding unbiased sources and well-designed studies is hard. When you dig into the research, often you will find that what is written about doesn't match the research. It's quite clear that you can live a healthy life with most calories from plants in some capacity. It's also quite clear that you can do the same with animals. Where it gets dicey is when we get into the specifics about farming methodologies, sustainability, and ethics. This is why i linked to white-oak pastures to give an example of regenerative agriculture practices that are proven to work. What's important is that when we talk about animal consumption that there's a ton of sins by the cattle industry specifically that need to be corrected. Moving to a regenerative agriculture method will lower their profits quite a bit, and they often find it helps their message to misdirect towards the "plant-based" (overloaded term) crowd.. The current battle in Montana between Bison restoration and ranchers versus the cattle industry is a great example [1][2] of how cattle industry behaves. Bison restoration and Bison ranching has taken off in Montana and Idaho. There is abig push to try and restore the natural grasslands and grass species that the Bison grazed on to improve the ecology of the area as a whole. Cattle are not compatible with that plan (imo) in Montana. However, bison are ruminant animals which are the linchpins for keeping the soil healthy enough to grow crop without large petroleum inputs (fertilizer). So 900 million cattle may not be a boon on their own, but if we put environment appropriate ruminants (goats, sheep etc) in the same places we can still perform regenerative agriculture. This topic leans towards heavy nerd snipes because there's so many rabbit holes to go down. For example: of the land that is used for grazing animals, how much of that is suitable for farming the big three (wheat, corn, soy)? Assume that every human is capable of getting enough calories to survive: Are they getting enough bio-available nutrition to meet the minimum needs? What about to perform closer to an optimum of mental and physical capacity? What does it really mean to be nutrient dense? Are we actually able to extract all the nutrients? What about if we started consuming organs again instead of just ribeyes? [1]https://apnews.com/article/health-environment-and-nature-business-government-and-politics-bison-a4f491eb3c2f8abba0dbe41450e0344a https://apnews.com/article/health-environment-and-nature-bus... [2]http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/2/19/yellowstone-farmbillspendingonrarebacteriapitsbisonagainstbeef.html http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/2/19/yellowstone-...