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> we could have public transportation > we can’t imagine a world where someone doesn’t privately own I love public transportation and my favorite cities are o

> we could have public transportation > we can’t imagine a world where someone doesn’t privately own I love public transportation and my favorite cities are ones that have the best public transportation. But most of what I like about it is great when “visiting,” not living. When I’ve lived in cities that had great public transportation it was occasionally nice; I could go downtown and get drunk without worrying about/coordinating transportation. But commute times on public transport are absolutely dreadful. Unless you win the lottery and your frequent destinations are along a single route with few stops, you’re transferring and waiting for a bunch of other folks. And cities where public transport works well are densely packed, making getting downtown from the edges any other way difficult too. Unless you’re talking about converting privatized point-to-point travel to public transportation, which sounds absolutely awesome and autonomous driving might bring closer to being a reality, I’d say I’m rather fond of going directly to my destination and back in less than 10min of drive time. Edit: realizing from the comments here that many people’s experience with using a vehicle and public transport is a daily commute. I work from home and I don’t drive during “rush hour” when, for some reason, society pays to migrate an entire city full of knowledge workers from their home to a computer. Living in the suburbs and not participating in daily commute culture looks a lot like “winning the lottery.” An example of how I use my car: I choose to go to the grocery store with the best supply chains in my area and it adds ~5 minutes to my drive compared to the one that’s “walkable” as long as it’s not rush hour. I place my order on my phone, pull up, open my trunk, a store employee puts the groceries in, and I drive home. That’s a hard baseline to compete with, especially for anyone who has a family they have to coordinate this around. I’d much rather stick my kids in a car seat and do the above than whatever the equivalent would be with public transportation.

prmoustache 3y ago
> Unless you’re talking about privatized point-to-point travel for public transportation, I’d say I’m rather fond of going directly to my destination and back in less than 10min of drive time. This is usually a driver's fantasy. How many times I have waited in a place or been at the office only for people to arrive late complaining of the traffic or not being able to find a place to park? I think most people want to use individual transportation because of the feeling of control it gives them. They can choose an alternate route, honk, hate and insult other road users, aren't bond to a schedule, choose where they park. Most of the time if you take into account the time it takes to go to their car, exit parking or find parking, they aren't faster or only negligibly so [1]. But they don't feel it because they are feeling they are always active compared to the passive act of sitting in a bus/tramway/subway. The only users of individual transportation that are on average really faster than public transports in a city with a decent public transport system are motorcycle/moped users and cyclists, and mostly because the former tend to park illegally on the sidewalk. [1] exception is nighttime driving
Roark66 3y ago
>But most of what I like about it is great when “visiting,” not living. When I’ve lived in cities that had great public transportation it was occasionally nice; I could go downtown and get drunk without worrying about/coordinating transportation. But commute times on public transport are absolutely dreadful. My opinion couldn't differ more. I lived for 6 years in London. I didn't own a car the entire time. I had a zipcar membership, but I used it maybe once every 2 months. I kept it mostly not to loose my "car insurance no claim discount" of many years more than to use the service. When I did commute by tube(underground) and train the entire trip lasted ~20min(including 5 min walk) and I didn't mind it at all. This was using one of the worst lines (the northern line). It's the deepest, the hottest and the dustiest (or at least it was back then) of the tube lines. But I got used to it pretty quickly and I actually enjoyed my very short commute (as compared with one I had before, when I lived in Staines, that was almost an hour one way). Note that within a city like London there are better and worse modes of public transport. My favourite was definitely commuting by river (10min on a fast boat, no people packed like sardines, no hot temperature etc). But then again I also spent few months biking to work(sadly before my bike was stolen). Before that I lived in another large city with much worse public transport than London. I used my own car there every day. And as someone with experience of living long term in both places I can tell you I much preferred London. That was all before the advent of remote work. Now, I much prefer not commuting at all and living elsewhere. On the other hand when I visited for the first time I didn't enjoy London's public transport one bit. It seemed confusing(initially) cramped, uncomfortable etc. Only later I started liking it much more.
acdha 3y ago
> But commute times on public transport are absolutely dreadful. Where this is true, it’s due to a policy decision to prioritize private vehicles ahead of everything else. I noticed your subsequent “less than 10 minutes of drive time”, which as an American seems quite fanciful for someone who didn’t “win the lottery” - that’s barely enough time for parking in many cases, or a single congested intersection or on-ramp. The other big factor is alternate use of that time: if you’re walking or bicycling, you get a workout; if you’re on transit, you can catch up on your reading, gaming, social media, or prepare for your first meeting; but if you’re driving you’re just staring at the car ahead of you wishing you could go faster. That’s why so many people really want to believe self-driving cars are right around the corner because that holds the prospect of a simple purchase making their lives better without having to help anyone else.

prmoustache 3y ago

> Unless you’re talking about privatized point-to-point travel for public transportation, I’d say I’m rather fond of going directly to my destination and back in less than 10min of drive time. This is usually a driver's fantasy. How many times I have waited in a place or been at the office only for people to arrive late complaining of the traffic or not being able to find a place to park? I think most people want to use individual transportation because of the feeling of control it gives them. They can choose an alternate route, honk, hate and insult other road users, aren't bond to a schedule, choose where they park. Most of the time if you take into account the time it takes to go to their car, exit parking or find parking, they aren't faster or only negligibly so [1]. But they don't feel it because they are feeling they are always active compared to the passive act of sitting in a bus/tramway/subway. The only users of individual transportation that are on average really faster than public transports in a city with a decent public transport system are motorcycle/moped users and cyclists, and mostly because the former tend to park illegally on the sidewalk. [1] exception is nighttime driving

Roark66 3y ago

>But most of what I like about it is great when “visiting,” not living. When I’ve lived in cities that had great public transportation it was occasionally nice; I could go downtown and get drunk without worrying about/coordinating transportation. But commute times on public transport are absolutely dreadful. My opinion couldn't differ more. I lived for 6 years in London. I didn't own a car the entire time. I had a zipcar membership, but I used it maybe once every 2 months. I kept it mostly not to loose my "car insurance no claim discount" of many years more than to use the service. When I did commute by tube(underground) and train the entire trip lasted ~20min(including 5 min walk) and I didn't mind it at all. This was using one of the worst lines (the northern line). It's the deepest, the hottest and the dustiest (or at least it was back then) of the tube lines. But I got used to it pretty quickly and I actually enjoyed my very short commute (as compared with one I had before, when I lived in Staines, that was almost an hour one way). Note that within a city like London there are better and worse modes of public transport. My favourite was definitely commuting by river (10min on a fast boat, no people packed like sardines, no hot temperature etc). But then again I also spent few months biking to work(sadly before my bike was stolen). Before that I lived in another large city with much worse public transport than London. I used my own car there every day. And as someone with experience of living long term in both places I can tell you I much preferred London. That was all before the advent of remote work. Now, I much prefer not commuting at all and living elsewhere. On the other hand when I visited for the first time I didn't enjoy London's public transport one bit. It seemed confusing(initially) cramped, uncomfortable etc. Only later I started liking it much more.

acdha 3y ago

> But commute times on public transport are absolutely dreadful. Where this is true, it’s due to a policy decision to prioritize private vehicles ahead of everything else. I noticed your subsequent “less than 10 minutes of drive time”, which as an American seems quite fanciful for someone who didn’t “win the lottery” - that’s barely enough time for parking in many cases, or a single congested intersection or on-ramp. The other big factor is alternate use of that time: if you’re walking or bicycling, you get a workout; if you’re on transit, you can catch up on your reading, gaming, social media, or prepare for your first meeting; but if you’re driving you’re just staring at the car ahead of you wishing you could go faster. That’s why so many people really want to believe self-driving cars are right around the corner because that holds the prospect of a simple purchase making their lives better without having to help anyone else.