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Dieter Rams's Ten principles of good design state: 5. Good design is unobtrusive. Products fulfilling a purpose are like tools. They are neither decorative obj
by dchest 3y ago
Dieter Rams's Ten principles of good design state:
5. Good design is unobtrusive. Products fulfilling a purpose are like tools. They are neither decorative objects nor works of art. Their design should therefore be both neutral and restrained, to leave room for the user's self-expression.
6. Good design is honest. It does not make a product more innovative, powerful or valuable than it really is. It doesn't attempt to manipulate the consumer with promises that cannot be kept.
If you read these principles and reverse them, you get your typical "product art" — a product form of clickbait titles — an attention-grabbing product that's intended to shock and generate PR, not sell the actual thing.
Such products are usually shallow: stylized to some theme without deeply understanding it, like user interfaces from movies, or like Lcroium's* own website (https://acrnm.com https://acrnm.com), which is stylized with useless _underscores and [brackets] without understanding why they are used in computing.
*) that's how you read ACRONYM's logo if you know Cyrillic.
- A_D_E_P_T 3y ago"Λ" = "A" is the most annoying faux-futuristic typesetting/logo trend I've ever come across. It's a lambda, "L", the ancient symbol of the Lacedaemonians. It should be possible to make an avantgarde font without confusing or oversimplifying letters. As an aside, I wonder how many graphic t-shirts those guys sell at $200.
- masfuerte 3y agoTheir plastic macs cost two grand!
- jacquesm 3y agoYes, designers are nuts for wanting to make logos that stand out. The design trend I'm sick and tired of is spacing common words with underscores and using capitals to achieve the exact same effect.
- A_D_E_P_T 3y agoWell, it could be worse. I could have done this: ΛDΞPT Anyway, my point was that the symbol "Λ" has a distinct meaning from the symbol "A" -- and, try as I might, I can't see them as interchangeable.
- jacquesm 3y agoMost people that come across this logo have never seen Λ before. They might mistake it for an elongated '^' or an upside down 'V' but the bulk will just see an 'A' with a missing '-'. There is also 'V' as 'U' which is quite confusing and some others. Creative people will be creative, that's what they get paid for. It's low hanging fruit, obviously but it works because you are talking about it. And that was their goal: to get you to notice it. Mission accomplished.
- HelloNurse 3y agoBy ignorants, for ignorants. И for N is equally terrible and meaningless.
- FireBeyond 3y agoLooking at new camera bags, I stumbled across the WANDRD (sure, okay) PRVKE (what? Pruke? Took me far longer than it should to realize it was meant to be 'provoke')...
- jrockway 3y agoI swap the N and M keycaps on my keyboard because I think they should be in alphabetical order. It turns out that the labels on the keys have absolutely no bearing on which scancodes they produce!
- roskoez 3y ago[flagged]
- petsfed 3y agoBlame NASA ca 1975?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- aqfamnzc 3y agoWho are you to say that your interpretation of that character is any more valid than anyone else's? One might see a "turned v"[0] or any other manner of meanings.[1] However most English-speaking people are going to immediately realize that it's meant as a stylized "A". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turned_v https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turned_v [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%BA%BA https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%BA%BA
- prepend 3y agoWho said they thought theirs was better? They just stated their opinion. That being said, who are you to say their interpretation of interpreting things is wrong? Etc etc. Personally, I think it’s stupid too. Of course people recognize it as “A.” My dislike isn’t because it’s confusing, it’s because I think it’s pretentious and ugly.
- aqfamnzc 3y agoFair enough. Those are some good points!
- karaterobot 3y agoIf we're being pedantic about the lamba, it's worth noting that a word mark logo is not a font, it's almost always a one-off. It doesn't even have to be readable, it just has to be memorable — and hey, it is!
- mavu 3y agoThis is a very bad take, and serves only to highlight the joylessness of the person writing it (and the original "design principles") I would instantly dispute pretty much any word of the first 3 sentences in your post. (except maybe the name) If you want to live in a world without choice, where everyone and everything looks the same (the inevitable endpoint of form follows function), be my guest, but at the end of your sad life you will remember all the times you looked back over the fence at all the people enjoying life in all its diverse forms, shapes, textures, activities and regret some choices you made along the way.
- andsoitis 3y ago> everything looks the same (the inevitable endpoint of form follows function) Optimizing for different tradeoffs (i.e. utility) tells us that sameness is not the end-state of form follows function.
- dav_Oz 3y agoThere is certainly a grey zone, here. I personally think a more long lasting enjoyment and satisfaction comes from the possibility of putting some work in e.g. modifying (self-expression)/modularity and not some highly polished "finished" product which barely holds itself: >Their design should therefore be both neutral and restrained, to leave room for the user's self-expression. But I also have nothing against highly volatile treats from time to time reminding myself that in the end one must be also able to let go and enjoy the moment. In keeping with the golden mean (μεσότης) these two things pushed too far are of course ugly, indeed, but the beauty of it very much depends from which side you need a steering direction. For me for example the tension between the aesthetic choice (ornament) camouflaged by caricaturing multi-functionality (usefulness) of the packaging of an ordinary product is an artistic expression of the state of affair we find ourselves: instant technical obsolescence the moment you have the product in your hands becoming an artifact in its own right. Is art ever useful? Is its value ultimately not just based on a fundamental impotency? I guess nowadays the most talented pool of artists express themselves through marketing. /s
- izacus 3y ago> If you want to live in a world without choice, where everyone and everything looks the same (the inevitable endpoint of form follows function), be my guest, but at the end of your sad life you will remember all the times you looked back over the fence at all the people enjoying life in all its diverse forms, shapes, textures, activities and regret some choices you made along the way. Are you implying that the same gray macbook, paired with the same iPhone, that everyone else at your company, in your social circle and every coffee shop of your town is not the PINNACLE of social existence?
- bmacho 3y ago> Lcroium's* > *) that's how you read ACRONYM's logo if you know Cyrillic. If you know Cyrillic, then why not read it as it is written? What's the point of bastard translating it to Latin?
- icepat 3y agoAnd also incorrect, C produces variant of the S sound. With ʌ not even being a Cyrillic character, but one from the IPA symbol set. L is Л or л. That said though, the translation of Cyrillic to Latin is commonly done, and a rather opinionated field. As is the reverse, Cyrillization.
- dchest 3y agoΛ, although not standard in most Cyrillic typography, is a valid Cyrillic form of Л — it's how you write Л by hand, and also how it appears in some typefaces. It's also used in Bulgarian Cyrillic.
- icepat 3y agoMy point more here is that л in typeface means something very different. That character has a specific meaning, the logo is clearly just picking and choosing random symbols to look good. That said, my point about C still stands. It is good to know that symbol is acceptable for handwritten forms though, I've been struggling to differentiate л and п in my handwriting.
- elzbardico 3y agoI know some Russian and worked with people native from Russia, so I would use the opportunity to train my Russian language skills chating with them. Using a latin keyboard as Russian input is incredibly easy in my opinion. But this keyboard is not cyrilic. It is just a mix of symbols for no purpose beyond visual appeal.
- icepat 3y agoYes, my point exactly.
- whywhywhywhy 3y agoBeing a good designer is knowing "Dieter Rams's Ten principles of good design" Being a great designer is knowing they don't matter
- f33d5173 3y agoIt seems like they're a fashion company. I don't see how one can "leave room for the user's self-expression" if one doesn't permit and even encourage the user to buy pieces of fashion or artwork to go along with utilitarian sensibility. Also, the website proper that you linked is amazingly utilitarian, especially in contrast to your introduction. It loads fast, and shows a list of images of various products right on the front page. I have seldom seen a product company with such a practical website as this. I had to look around to find the misuse of special characters that you're criticizing them for. This hardly ruins an otherwise good website
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y agoDieter Rams's principles apply more to consumer products rather than art or fashion.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- andsoitis 3y ago> more to consumer products rather than art or fashion Surely this computer is still ultimately meant for computing (in style)?
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y agoSurely their jackets are meant to keep you warm and dry (in style)?
- jnwatson 3y agoIt doesn't even apply to consumer products. Thankfully to Apple's shareholder, they obviously ignored these rules.
- mydriasis 3y ago> Lcroium's even worse - C -> S in Cyrillic :)
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago> Good design is unobtrusive. Products fulfilling a purpose are like tools. They are neither decorative objects nor works of art. Their design should therefore be both neutral and restrained, to leave room for the user's self-expression. Excuse my French, but fuck Dieter Rams. I certainly understand this viewpoint, and I have no problem with folks that adhere to it, but my problem is with stating as some sort of axiom, with no evidence or reason, that "Products fulfilling a purpose are neither decorative objects nor works of art." Humans have built things that are both functional and beautiful since culture first existed, and there is nothing wrong with designing products with a strong visual aesthetic viewpoint. If we all followed Dieter Rams' silly advice, all of our computers would still be boring beige boxes, maybe covered in stickers "for the user's self-expression." Note I say this while agreeing with the latter part of your post. I'm not a fan of this particular design - it feels kitschy and shallow in the same way that Hollywood "hacker" movies show terminals that look like 3D game worlds. But that's just my personal opinion, and I don't fault people for feeling the exact opposite. I do fault people for saying that you shouldn't be allowed to try, and if you do that you are "not following principles of good design."
- CharlesW 3y ago> I do fault people for saying that you shouldn't be allowed to try… Can you remind me of the quote where Dieter Rams says that you shouldn't be allowed to try?
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoI am responding to the author that, at least in my take, appears to be stating that these are "anointed" "good design principles", and that if you don't adhere to Rams' singular viewpoint, you are by definition engaging in bad design.
- dchest 3y agoThe exact words I typed are "If you read these principles and reverse them...". These are Dieter's principles — a product design approach that he believes leads to good design. I pointed out that if you apply the opposite of them, you get this product.
- pclark 3y agoAcronym make elite tier men’s clothing — they’re anything but shallow.
- dchest 3y agoI said nothing about their clothing. I didn't come to their fashion field with my knowledge and taste. They came to computing, a field I'm passionate about, and produced shallow cargo-culted design presented as an actual product.
- pclark 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- FireBeyond 3y agoThis makes no sense. You can absolutely be high end and superficial. Nothing about the two is mutually exclusive.
- mrguyorama 3y ago"Elite Tier" Oh, says who?
- throwanem 3y agoI didn't know about this manufacturer, but I'm glad I do now, because I've been wondering since 2015 where Ubisoft got the design cues for "WATCH_DOGS". 'Shallow' is indeed the word...
- pm3003 3y agothat's how you read ACRONYM's logo if you know Cyrillic. Wouldn't it be more like Lsroioum's ?
- boppo1 3y agoI have a 7950x, 64GB of ram, a 4800RTX and that website won't run 30fps for me. Hell it shoots my cpu to 100%. Gross.
- namdnay 3y agoTo be fair, Fashion isn’t really the same as design. No one expects the latest Gucci dress or Lamborghini to be unobtrusive