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That's fine, as long as there is literally no one in the whole US with the skill TSMC needs. Literally no one. Which I doubt. Hypotheticals aside, I think TSMC

That's fine, as long as there is literally no one in the whole US with the skill TSMC needs. Literally no one. Which I doubt. Hypotheticals aside, I think TSMC just needs to pay more. What top quality engineer wants to move to Phoenix, do shift work, on site, for a notoriously demanding company, where he either needs to learn Chinese or be left out of most decision making and promotion opportunities? The answer is one on a 7 figure salary. But that's the cost of convincing skilled people to put up with the other decisions the company has made. That is WHY no one else is running a fab in phoenix...

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> answer is one on a 7 figure salary. But that's the cost of convincing skilled people to put up with the other decisions the company has made The debate is whether there is any price at which these fabs can be competitive in America. If you need to pay seven figures for what costs five in Asia, the answer is no. (Low six, on the other hand, strong maybe.) Perhaps the location in Phoenix, and Chinese-language culture, explain enough of the gap. Maybe they don’t, however, and until these fans require zero local labour input, they’re better built in Japan, Taiwan and Korea.
- LatteLazy 3y ago
  I think that debate has already been had actually: TSMC said it COULD be done, as long as that got the subsidies they have been given. Now, having agreed a price and been paid, suddenly it's impossible? Then TSMC should refund all the money, eat their losses and not be eligible to bid again. That's how deals work: your paid and you deliver. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too...
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > TSMC should refund all the money, eat their losses and not be eligible to bid again. That's how deals work Have you been involved with a public-private partnership? It looks like TSMC put their fab in a stupid place. Particularly if that is the reason the plant is failing. (Which I continue to doubt.) Otherwise, the deal was a bet. If the heft fails, nobody wins.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - LatteLazy 3y ago
      I have: people bid way under and don't bother doing their research. Then when they win the "contract" start renegotiating. "We will build a fab if you give us 1bnUSD and 50 work permits" rapidly becomes we might build half a fab if you give us 100bnUSD and 5000 work permits". I'm all for getting it done. But if want to just buy TSMC and move it to phoenix then we should do that. Let's not pay the same price for both project...

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> answer is one on a 7 figure salary. But that's the cost of convincing skilled people to put up with the other decisions the company has made The debate is whether there is any price at which these fabs can be competitive in America. If you need to pay seven figures for what costs five in Asia, the answer is no. (Low six, on the other hand, strong maybe.) Perhaps the location in Phoenix, and Chinese-language culture, explain enough of the gap. Maybe they don’t, however, and until these fans require zero local labour input, they’re better built in Japan, Taiwan and Korea.

LatteLazy 3y ago
I think that debate has already been had actually: TSMC said it COULD be done, as long as that got the subsidies they have been given. Now, having agreed a price and been paid, suddenly it's impossible? Then TSMC should refund all the money, eat their losses and not be eligible to bid again. That's how deals work: your paid and you deliver. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too...
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > TSMC should refund all the money, eat their losses and not be eligible to bid again. That's how deals work Have you been involved with a public-private partnership? It looks like TSMC put their fab in a stupid place. Particularly if that is the reason the plant is failing. (Which I continue to doubt.) Otherwise, the deal was a bet. If the heft fails, nobody wins.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - LatteLazy 3y ago
    I have: people bid way under and don't bother doing their research. Then when they win the "contract" start renegotiating. "We will build a fab if you give us 1bnUSD and 50 work permits" rapidly becomes we might build half a fab if you give us 100bnUSD and 5000 work permits". I'm all for getting it done. But if want to just buy TSMC and move it to phoenix then we should do that. Let's not pay the same price for both project...