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It's not really about the cost. I would say it's pollution, crime and lack of avenues for small kids. I was living on a skyscraper and the amount of black dus

It's not really about the cost. I would say it's pollution, crime and lack of avenues for small kids. I was living on a skyscraper and the amount of black dust I was removing from next to the windows was mind-blowing. I still remember moving 1hr out of London and feeling like I was breathing again. Not what I wanted for my kids. The amount of stabbing and theft going on was pretty crazy. It was all around you. Some parks are ok and touristy, some parks are straight up dodgy and you run into drugged up, drunk people, (homeless?) people harassing you. There are almost no kids around so not super easy to find friends for your kids. Nurseries are small and crowded because real estate is at a premium. Again, moving out from the city fixed all the problems. Town life in the UK is actually pretty great. Sure you will miss on the main pros of London, events and networking. I'd recommend finding a nice town commuting distance from London to reap the most benefits.

new23d 3y ago
Your comments are a reflection of life in Tower Hamlets, where PanP etc. are. London otherwise in the N, NE and SW parts has clean air with plenty of green spaces for kids.
- jstx1 3y ago
  > where PanP etc. are. What are these?
- jokethrowaway 3y ago
  I was not in Tower Hamlets but in the City of London and Southwark, but I'm sure your comment is valid: London is a large area and you can get a better quality of life on the outskirts. Still, flying from London to somewhere else or taking a train to go outside, the difference in air quality before and after was noticeable.
flower-giraffe 3y ago
Canary Wharf is surrounded by poverty in a brown field redevelopment that has been a permanent construction site for over thirty years. It is not really representative of London. London is an expensive city, you’ll need several million pounds for a decent family home but if you can afford it it’s an absolutely fantastic place to live. Unfortunately the lack of affordable housing makes it less likely to be so in the long term. Arguably it is developments like Canary Wharf and the associated planning concessions that have fuelled the London property market to make it practically unaffordable for the vast majority of people that do the real work.
- HPsquared 3y ago
  If you have several million pounds, you can have a nice life literally anywhere. For the same money, you'd have a better quality of life outside London.
  - sealeck 3y ago
    Not really because most good things in the UK are in London (theatre, sports, clubs, museums, architecture, etc).
    - denton-scratch 3y ago
      Theatre: London is certainly better than the provinces, if you like that kind of thing. I don't. Sports: neither spectator nor participation sports are a London speciality. Clubs: if that means nightclubs, Manchester had a much better club-scene than London when I lived there (mid 90s). I'm too old for clubbing now! Museums and architecture: people visit museums and gawp at architecture when they're visiting a place. Once you've seen a museum, you've seen it. Sure, it's pleasant to live among nice buildings; but most of the London cityscape is not anything I'd call architecture. I lived in Central London for 20 years. I hated it for 17 of those years. It takes an hour to get across town on the (stinking) underground, which is the quickest way. Traffic is the most-aggressive of any place that I've driven in the UK. People are unfriendly; nobody lives in London to make friends, they live in London to make money. Everyone's in a hurry, presumably because they want to make a lot of money so they can leave.
      - sealeck 3y ago
        I find that people are much more friendly in London (they are certainly a lot less racist in general, which is lovely). It's the premier city in Europe, and very international which is lovely. It has such a great mix of things – you are constantly surrounded by history and there is always something going on.
- walthamstow 3y ago
  > London is an expensive city, you’ll need several million pounds for a decent family home Just not true. I grew up in a 4 bed house in a zone 4 area where such houses still go for under a million, especially if you're willing to do a bit of work. It's a perfectly nice area, good schools, parks and trees, 30min train to central, what more could a normal family want?
fidotron 3y ago
The in-nostril build up that you get from certain Underground lines is also mind boggling. I have not encountered anything comparable in other cities to that dust on the Northern line.
LilBytes 3y ago
That hurts to hear. I grew up in Hartlepool (North East of England), moved to Australia when I was 19 and I'm 35 now. I moved because I was stabbed, and can't count on one hand how many times I'd been assaulted and mugged in the 10 years prior. To hear the rest of the country is heading in a similar direction is a horrid reflection on the state of affairs in the UK.
- leoedin 3y ago
  I'm a similar age to you, live in London and I've never been stabbed, mugged or assaulted in the UK. It's not that bad.
  - LilBytes 3y ago
    I'd say from this thread, it's also difficult to make an informed decision on my what the city is like. Especially from two anecdotes like this. Like always, it'll be some where in the middle.
leoedin 3y ago
I live in the inner suburbs of North London (about 5 miles from the absolute centre) and don't really recognise any of those problems. There's loads of kids here - literally every 3rd house on my road has a family with young kids in it. Nurseries are no more crowded than other UK cities either. Obviously there's some level of crime - but that's also present everywhere to varying degrees. There's loads of kids activities here as well. The city isn't a single place - it's a whole load of historical towns and neighbourhoods joined together. Experiences vary.

new23d 3y ago

Your comments are a reflection of life in Tower Hamlets, where PanP etc. are. London otherwise in the N, NE and SW parts has clean air with plenty of green spaces for kids.

jstx1 3y ago
> where PanP etc. are. What are these?
jokethrowaway 3y ago
I was not in Tower Hamlets but in the City of London and Southwark, but I'm sure your comment is valid: London is a large area and you can get a better quality of life on the outskirts. Still, flying from London to somewhere else or taking a train to go outside, the difference in air quality before and after was noticeable.

flower-giraffe 3y ago

Canary Wharf is surrounded by poverty in a brown field redevelopment that has been a permanent construction site for over thirty years. It is not really representative of London. London is an expensive city, you’ll need several million pounds for a decent family home but if you can afford it it’s an absolutely fantastic place to live. Unfortunately the lack of affordable housing makes it less likely to be so in the long term. Arguably it is developments like Canary Wharf and the associated planning concessions that have fuelled the London property market to make it practically unaffordable for the vast majority of people that do the real work.

HPsquared 3y ago
If you have several million pounds, you can have a nice life literally anywhere. For the same money, you'd have a better quality of life outside London.
- sealeck 3y ago
  Not really because most good things in the UK are in London (theatre, sports, clubs, museums, architecture, etc).
  - denton-scratch 3y ago
    Theatre: London is certainly better than the provinces, if you like that kind of thing. I don't. Sports: neither spectator nor participation sports are a London speciality. Clubs: if that means nightclubs, Manchester had a much better club-scene than London when I lived there (mid 90s). I'm too old for clubbing now! Museums and architecture: people visit museums and gawp at architecture when they're visiting a place. Once you've seen a museum, you've seen it. Sure, it's pleasant to live among nice buildings; but most of the London cityscape is not anything I'd call architecture. I lived in Central London for 20 years. I hated it for 17 of those years. It takes an hour to get across town on the (stinking) underground, which is the quickest way. Traffic is the most-aggressive of any place that I've driven in the UK. People are unfriendly; nobody lives in London to make friends, they live in London to make money. Everyone's in a hurry, presumably because they want to make a lot of money so they can leave.
    - sealeck 3y ago
      I find that people are much more friendly in London (they are certainly a lot less racist in general, which is lovely). It's the premier city in Europe, and very international which is lovely. It has such a great mix of things – you are constantly surrounded by history and there is always something going on.
walthamstow 3y ago
> London is an expensive city, you’ll need several million pounds for a decent family home Just not true. I grew up in a 4 bed house in a zone 4 area where such houses still go for under a million, especially if you're willing to do a bit of work. It's a perfectly nice area, good schools, parks and trees, 30min train to central, what more could a normal family want?

fidotron 3y ago

The in-nostril build up that you get from certain Underground lines is also mind boggling. I have not encountered anything comparable in other cities to that dust on the Northern line.

LilBytes 3y ago

That hurts to hear. I grew up in Hartlepool (North East of England), moved to Australia when I was 19 and I'm 35 now. I moved because I was stabbed, and can't count on one hand how many times I'd been assaulted and mugged in the 10 years prior. To hear the rest of the country is heading in a similar direction is a horrid reflection on the state of affairs in the UK.

leoedin 3y ago
I'm a similar age to you, live in London and I've never been stabbed, mugged or assaulted in the UK. It's not that bad.
- LilBytes 3y ago
  I'd say from this thread, it's also difficult to make an informed decision on my what the city is like. Especially from two anecdotes like this. Like always, it'll be some where in the middle.

leoedin 3y ago

I live in the inner suburbs of North London (about 5 miles from the absolute centre) and don't really recognise any of those problems. There's loads of kids here - literally every 3rd house on my road has a family with young kids in it. Nurseries are no more crowded than other UK cities either. Obviously there's some level of crime - but that's also present everywhere to varying degrees. There's loads of kids activities here as well. The city isn't a single place - it's a whole load of historical towns and neighbourhoods joined together. Experiences vary.