5 ms·

> That's bullshit. A Gewerbeanmeldung for a one-person startup or a GbR (same, just with more than one person) takes one DIN A4 sheet of paper per person Now t

> That's bullshit. A Gewerbeanmeldung for a one-person startup or a GbR (same, just with more than one person) takes one DIN A4 sheet of paper per person Now that is bs. Because you also need to register with the tax authorities (Finanzamt) to get your tax id after that. Oh, and if you want to do your VAT declarations ("Umsatzsteuervoranmeldung") yourself, don't forget to request a digital certificate for ELSTER, which is sent - yes- via snail mail. And good luck if you want a EU VAT id, which is another separate step/appointment. And when you want to pay out first dividends you are in for a surprise when the tax account asks all of the shareholders/owners of the GbR/GmbH for their proof of church membership (for dividends tax), which you have to request individually from the Finanzamt just to send it back to them later...

mschuster91 3y ago
The thing is, the "time to start" is practically zero. You file the Gewerbeanmeldung and can start working immediately after, and do the rest (apply for a tax ID, ELSTER, IHK contributions) later on in the next weeks. Been through that twice. With the LLCs you can also operate as "UG/GmbH in Gründung" for a limited time if you need to start fast, but never went that route. > you are in for a surprise when the tax account asks all of the shareholders/owners of the GbR/GmbH for their proof of church membership (for dividends tax) Ah yes, I agree with you that this crap can go and die in a fire for all I care...
- littlecranky67 3y ago
  Thats also wrong, because you cant invoice without tax id.
  - throwaway736282 3y ago
    You clearly should speak to a tax advisor because the facts you're stating are just wrong. From the minute you applied tax-id, you can invoice with the remark that you will supply the tax-id later. So parentposter is infact right. But it's probably easier to just rant, instead of gathering basic information.
    - littlecranky67 3y ago
      And thats why you use a throwaway? Edit: and another, less obvious throwaway to answer this thread :) I'm not resorting in any way to personal threats, I'm just pointing out throwaway-account usage. Edit2: And the reply to this thread is removed, as I pointed out the other obvious throwaway usage. There was antoher answer by throwaway "iiiieu". I'm quiting this discussion, mschuster91, save your throwaway creations :P
      - iiiieu 3y ago
        [flagged]
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    You absolutely can [1], you just have to issue the bill with the tax ID again once you have it (a week worth of waiting time). [1] https://www.existenzgruender.de/SharedDocs/BMWi-Expertenforum/Steuern/Rechnungsstellung/Rechnungen-ohne-Steuernummer-verschicken.html https://www.existenzgruender.de/SharedDocs/BMWi-Expertenforu...
    - littlecranky67 3y ago
      Sure but you are splitting hairs. If I enter a shop to buy sth and the clerk tells me I have to check back in a couple of weeks to get the proper invoice, I as a customer take my business elsewhere.
      - mschuster91 3y ago
        It's fine if you're running some sort of IT consultancy or whatever, your first invoice will be running weeks after the fact in any case. Everyone else can wait a week (or less, if you're persistent in nagging the Finanzamt on the phone), but let's be real: if you're a shop owner, you need weeks of "empty" runway to rent a shop, set up the shop, buy inventory, wait for it to arrive... so in reality the week of waiting time won't matter.
        littlecranky67 3y ago
        IT consultancies are not the majorities of businesses. Additionally, your tax id does not necessarily take a week. And good luck if you do international (but within EU) buisness - the EU VAT id takes even longer. Additionally, when did we (germans) start to accept and get so stuborn to defend this process? I mean, the process should be: You go to the "Gewerbeamt", fill out the forms, and get the same day a tax id, a EU VAT id, and a one-time token to create your ELSTER accounts and certificates. Thats what digitalization should be. How does anyone think the current, cumbersome process is the ultimate way and that this is considered business friendly, yet tends to defend or glorifies this process?
        3y ago

mschuster91 3y ago

The thing is, the "time to start" is practically zero. You file the Gewerbeanmeldung and can start working immediately after, and do the rest (apply for a tax ID, ELSTER, IHK contributions) later on in the next weeks. Been through that twice. With the LLCs you can also operate as "UG/GmbH in Gründung" for a limited time if you need to start fast, but never went that route. > you are in for a surprise when the tax account asks all of the shareholders/owners of the GbR/GmbH for their proof of church membership (for dividends tax) Ah yes, I agree with you that this crap can go and die in a fire for all I care...

littlecranky67 3y ago
Thats also wrong, because you cant invoice without tax id.
- throwaway736282 3y ago
  You clearly should speak to a tax advisor because the facts you're stating are just wrong. From the minute you applied tax-id, you can invoice with the remark that you will supply the tax-id later. So parentposter is infact right. But it's probably easier to just rant, instead of gathering basic information.
  - littlecranky67 3y ago
    And thats why you use a throwaway? Edit: and another, less obvious throwaway to answer this thread :) I'm not resorting in any way to personal threats, I'm just pointing out throwaway-account usage. Edit2: And the reply to this thread is removed, as I pointed out the other obvious throwaway usage. There was antoher answer by throwaway "iiiieu". I'm quiting this discussion, mschuster91, save your throwaway creations :P
    - iiiieu 3y ago
      [flagged]
- mschuster91 3y ago
  You absolutely can [1], you just have to issue the bill with the tax ID again once you have it (a week worth of waiting time). [1] https://www.existenzgruender.de/SharedDocs/BMWi-Expertenforum/Steuern/Rechnungsstellung/Rechnungen-ohne-Steuernummer-verschicken.html https://www.existenzgruender.de/SharedDocs/BMWi-Expertenforu...
  - littlecranky67 3y ago
    Sure but you are splitting hairs. If I enter a shop to buy sth and the clerk tells me I have to check back in a couple of weeks to get the proper invoice, I as a customer take my business elsewhere.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      It's fine if you're running some sort of IT consultancy or whatever, your first invoice will be running weeks after the fact in any case. Everyone else can wait a week (or less, if you're persistent in nagging the Finanzamt on the phone), but let's be real: if you're a shop owner, you need weeks of "empty" runway to rent a shop, set up the shop, buy inventory, wait for it to arrive... so in reality the week of waiting time won't matter.
      - littlecranky67 3y ago
        IT consultancies are not the majorities of businesses. Additionally, your tax id does not necessarily take a week. And good luck if you do international (but within EU) buisness - the EU VAT id takes even longer. Additionally, when did we (germans) start to accept and get so stuborn to defend this process? I mean, the process should be: You go to the "Gewerbeamt", fill out the forms, and get the same day a tax id, a EU VAT id, and a one-time token to create your ELSTER accounts and certificates. Thats what digitalization should be. How does anyone think the current, cumbersome process is the ultimate way and that this is considered business friendly, yet tends to defend or glorifies this process?
        3y ago