4 ms·

> People come here, reek of privilege, miss their life in India where they had 3 servants for everything and also forget that if they have to go to any governme

by bgdam 3y ago

> People come here, reek of privilege, miss their life in India where they had 3 servants for everything and also forget that if they have to go to any government office in India they have to pay bribes. Unfortunately these are the exact people that Germany wants moving into their country - because they're the one's who pay the high taxes. Do you think Germany is throwing open their doors for the underprivileged folk of the developing world? Unless you're a refugee from a war torn land, they are not doing that. They don't want you here. Case in point - the new immigration reform allows you to bring your parents on FRV only if you're coming here on a high paying blue card job. So if your goal is to explicitly attract these kinds of privileged individuals, then it's pointless to get pissed off when they speak from their position of privilege. > Also, please show some respect to the country you live in. So what, I should kow tow to a broken system and praise it? No thanks. People and countries should be able to take criticism. Also, just because I complain about everything that is bad doesn't mean that there is nothing good. It's just that none of them apply to a thread about Germany's dire immigration situation.

2-718-281-828 3y ago
sounds like you miss your servants which happen to be a little too expensive for you here ... and you even have to treat them respectful. what a bummer
- bgdam 3y ago
  Way to assume. I love how literally everyone who criticizes Germany about being slow and inefficient is assumed to come from a place of privilege. If I missed by "servants" I'd be complaining about separating my garbage and having to make multiple trips to the recyclehof, not about bureaucracy sucking the life out of people.
  - 2-718-281-828 3y ago
    india is itself infamous for escalating bureaucracy.
    - Gud 3y ago
      Yes, but many countries aren’t like this. In many countries, administration is efficient. Why compare yourself to one notorious for poor administration
      - 2-718-281-828 3y ago
        this is a thread building up a context ... that's why. anyway - what are those countries? everybody would like to know!
        Gud 3y ago
        Switzerland, Scandinavia, AFAIK Estonia. The UAE has excellent administration.
        2-718-281-828 3y ago
        switzerland: possible - but many migrants complain about it being almost impossible to get accepted there beyond being a law abiding work force. scandinavia: (not a country) strong contestants. estonia: not really - i have several estonian friends who will give you a long list of reasons why germany is the better place to live and work. personally, i really like estonia. have been there many times. uae (or singapure): sure ... but you are discrediting yourself by even mentioning those in this list or possibly considering them as a place to live. first three are all in EU by the way - and very close to germany. so the good news is that you can just easily try to move there. have a nice trip.
        Gud 3y ago
        I live in Switzerland already(and they are not in the EU).
  - dang 3y ago
    Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- dang 3y ago
  "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." "Don't be snarky." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - 2-718-281-828 3y ago
    i think my comment was justified and quite on point. it is very much a cultural thing in india to have servants from a lower and less respected caste. it's not nice but that's how it is. and yes, the caste system is very much racist.
    - dang 3y ago
      I don't know what to tell you other than that you broke the first guideline I quoted by caricaturing what the other person had written, and you broke the second guideline I quoted by being sarcastic and needlessly personal.
rockyj 3y ago
Fair enough. Respect your opinion. All I know, in Delhi I was using 1 inhaler in 1 week, in Germany it is 1 inhaler in 1 year. That is worth something to me.
sony22 3y ago
> So what, I should kow tow to a broken system and praise it? No thanks. People and countries should be able to take criticism. Also, just because I complain about everything that is bad doesn't mean that there is nothing good. It's just that none of them apply to a thread about Germany's dire immigration situation. You don't kow tow have to but never attack a group of people like "They will never change". Looking at the history Germans are one people that happily criticise themselves. Even incl. racism. Germans happily and always criticise the bureacracy. If you are not this aggressive in stereotyping then may be you are in a bubble without German friends/co-workers. What broken system? You have some pain points. BTW, that headline is correct but it takes only one year and then same Economist will reverse the headline. Until Lehman bros crashed every one called Germany sickman of europe. Then it became so much praise for their great Economics powerhouse.
- bgdam 3y ago
  > You don't kow tow have to but never attack a group of people like "They will never change". This is my view formed after living in Germany for the better part of a decade and seeing multiple Governments push back modernization projects and allocate the budget intended for them to populist people pleasing measures - and then seeing a lot of Germans agree with these measures. It's also formed from a lot of discussion on the /r/german subreddit and with Germans I know personally of varying age groups - most of them do not believe these are big problems or that substantial effort has to be put into to change them. > Even incl. racism. I don't want to talk about this as it is off-topic for the post, but racism is alive and very healthy in Germany. It's just not as "in-your-face" as in other countries which are generally thought of as having "racism problems".
_19qg 3y ago
> Unfortunately these are the exact people that Germany wants moving into their country Germany is already open for work for ALL of the EU member states and associated countries. The EU has a "freedom to move for goods, persons, services and capital" as one of the four principles. That means EVERYONE of the EU, who can afford the life in Germany, could move here. Additionally we have people coming from other countries, incl. India on visas: students, workers, ... plus Germany currently hosts around 1 million persons from the Ukraine, because of the war. > because they're the one's who pay the high taxes. Germany needs workers in many professions: construction workers, in agriculture, nurses, software developers, ... They come from the EU and from outside the EU. For EU citizens its relatively easy to move to other countries. The EU also made it easy for people from the Ukraine, to help the war refugees.
iiiieu 3y ago
> Unfortunately these are the exact people that Germany wants moving into their country - because they're the one's who pay the high taxes. Not sure about that. The ideal immigrant to a country is young and well educated. Through labour, they will contribute immensely to society and pay top income tax. In constrast, some rich people who park their wealth in offshore tax heavens and live off passive income don't contribute much, beyond rising real estate prices.

by bgdam 3y ago

2-718-281-828 3y ago

sounds like you miss your servants which happen to be a little too expensive for you here ... and you even have to treat them respectful. what a bummer

bgdam 3y ago
Way to assume. I love how literally everyone who criticizes Germany about being slow and inefficient is assumed to come from a place of privilege. If I missed by "servants" I'd be complaining about separating my garbage and having to make multiple trips to the recyclehof, not about bureaucracy sucking the life out of people.
- 2-718-281-828 3y ago
  india is itself infamous for escalating bureaucracy.
  - Gud 3y ago
    Yes, but many countries aren’t like this. In many countries, administration is efficient. Why compare yourself to one notorious for poor administration
    - 2-718-281-828 3y ago
      this is a thread building up a context ... that's why. anyway - what are those countries? everybody would like to know!
      - Gud 3y ago
        Switzerland, Scandinavia, AFAIK Estonia. The UAE has excellent administration.
        2-718-281-828 3y ago
        switzerland: possible - but many migrants complain about it being almost impossible to get accepted there beyond being a law abiding work force. scandinavia: (not a country) strong contestants. estonia: not really - i have several estonian friends who will give you a long list of reasons why germany is the better place to live and work. personally, i really like estonia. have been there many times. uae (or singapure): sure ... but you are discrediting yourself by even mentioning those in this list or possibly considering them as a place to live. first three are all in EU by the way - and very close to germany. so the good news is that you can just easily try to move there. have a nice trip.
        Gud 3y ago
        I live in Switzerland already(and they are not in the EU).
- dang 3y ago
  Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
dang 3y ago
"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." "Don't be snarky." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- 2-718-281-828 3y ago
  i think my comment was justified and quite on point. it is very much a cultural thing in india to have servants from a lower and less respected caste. it's not nice but that's how it is. and yes, the caste system is very much racist.
  - dang 3y ago
    I don't know what to tell you other than that you broke the first guideline I quoted by caricaturing what the other person had written, and you broke the second guideline I quoted by being sarcastic and needlessly personal.

rockyj 3y ago

Fair enough. Respect your opinion. All I know, in Delhi I was using 1 inhaler in 1 week, in Germany it is 1 inhaler in 1 year. That is worth something to me.

sony22 3y ago

> So what, I should kow tow to a broken system and praise it? No thanks. People and countries should be able to take criticism. Also, just because I complain about everything that is bad doesn't mean that there is nothing good. It's just that none of them apply to a thread about Germany's dire immigration situation. You don't kow tow have to but never attack a group of people like "They will never change". Looking at the history Germans are one people that happily criticise themselves. Even incl. racism. Germans happily and always criticise the bureacracy. If you are not this aggressive in stereotyping then may be you are in a bubble without German friends/co-workers. What broken system? You have some pain points. BTW, that headline is correct but it takes only one year and then same Economist will reverse the headline. Until Lehman bros crashed every one called Germany sickman of europe. Then it became so much praise for their great Economics powerhouse.

bgdam 3y ago
> You don't kow tow have to but never attack a group of people like "They will never change". This is my view formed after living in Germany for the better part of a decade and seeing multiple Governments push back modernization projects and allocate the budget intended for them to populist people pleasing measures - and then seeing a lot of Germans agree with these measures. It's also formed from a lot of discussion on the /r/german subreddit and with Germans I know personally of varying age groups - most of them do not believe these are big problems or that substantial effort has to be put into to change them. > Even incl. racism. I don't want to talk about this as it is off-topic for the post, but racism is alive and very healthy in Germany. It's just not as "in-your-face" as in other countries which are generally thought of as having "racism problems".

_19qg 3y ago

> Unfortunately these are the exact people that Germany wants moving into their country Germany is already open for work for ALL of the EU member states and associated countries. The EU has a "freedom to move for goods, persons, services and capital" as one of the four principles. That means EVERYONE of the EU, who can afford the life in Germany, could move here. Additionally we have people coming from other countries, incl. India on visas: students, workers, ... plus Germany currently hosts around 1 million persons from the Ukraine, because of the war. > because they're the one's who pay the high taxes. Germany needs workers in many professions: construction workers, in agriculture, nurses, software developers, ... They come from the EU and from outside the EU. For EU citizens its relatively easy to move to other countries. The EU also made it easy for people from the Ukraine, to help the war refugees.

iiiieu 3y ago

> Unfortunately these are the exact people that Germany wants moving into their country - because they're the one's who pay the high taxes. Not sure about that. The ideal immigrant to a country is young and well educated. Through labour, they will contribute immensely to society and pay top income tax. In constrast, some rich people who park their wealth in offshore tax heavens and live off passive income don't contribute much, beyond rising real estate prices.