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Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’
- justsomehnguy 3y ago> blah blah blah > The cost of travel is also a consideration. > The yen is at its weakest in decades, and many Japanese workers haven’t had a raise in 30 years. > Less disposable income means young people may be more inclined to stay at home or explore nearby locations Sure, there are some other valid points, but it's pointless to talk about traveling abroad if you don't even have the money. Being an island nation with many hours of flight to any destination not in SEA doesn't help.
- Someone 3y agoI don’t think that explains everything. In many other countries “the $Foo is at its weakest in decades, and many Foo workers haven’t had a raise in 30 years” means young people will be more inclined to emigrate and that isn’t happening in Japan, AFAIK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_diaspora#Americas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_diaspora#Americas: “The Japanese diaspora has been unique in the absence of new emigration flows in the second half of the 20th century”)
- justsomehnguy 3y agoTYO to LAX ticket cost, travel time? TYO to PAR?
- Someone 3y agoI don’t think travel time matters much. As to prices, are those more expensive than those from Bangalore or Bucharest to LA or NY?
- kalleboo 3y agoAnecdotally from friends, I'd say the top three reasons are: * Lack of money * Lack of time off from work * Lack of English skills, making travel abroad intimidating. In previous generations this was counteracted by bus tours with Japanese guides, but those are seen as lame by the younger generations.
- redeeman 3y ago> Lack of English skills if only there was some way to remedy this.
- rwmj 3y agoCountries that want Japanese tourists could learn Japanese?
- wodenokoto 3y agoI’ve never been, but I’m told street signs in Guam and Hawaii are often also in Japanese.
- throw5555788o 3y agoNo.
- thaumasiotes 3y agoThat has definitely already happened in China and Thailand.
- redeeman 3y agosure, if a country wants to try pull in more, they could. Sounds to me like its the Japanese that wants it most though
- Brajeshwar 3y agoIsn't the "Lack of English skills" easily solved with the plethora of translator devices and apps these days? About a decade+ ago (I think 2010-11), I remember a woman who sat next to me after Narita, traveling "to explore India." She carried a tiny device the size of a typical compact (make-up thing for person who wants/needs to make up). She had no idea about English but can communicate via her device and it was pretty good at that time. I was pleasantly surprised and amazed by that. Imagine translator devices/apps ten years hence.
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- Cloudef 3y agoWork to the death culture
- christkv 3y agoHow does that compare to other countries ?
- Ekaros 3y agoI have understood that Japan has strong domestic tourism market that caters to their market, that is short weekend or extended weekend holidays. That fit better in the work culture.
- bombcar 3y agoThat is my understanding also, numerous internal destinations that are considered appropriate for various vacation lengths and prices; after all, airline prices get high when crossing the ocean.
- thaumasiotes 3y agoI don't think prices are much of a barrier for visiting e.g. Korea. A flight between HND and ICN appears to cost about $120.
- higeorge13 3y agoHowever same distance might be 50€ in some low cost european airline.
- nikau 3y agoI would suspect part of it is the lack of novelty, its like travelling from Australia to New Zealand, its a different country but similar enough that it doesn't really feel "overseas".
- thaumasiotes 3y ago> its a different country but similar enough that it doesn't really feel "overseas". Well... if you live in Australia, odds are you'll be able to communicate with the New Zealanders without difficulty. This does not apply to Japanese traveling to Korea. They'll be well aware they're overseas.
- jalapenos 3y agoThe strong domestic tourism market is partly caused by the lack of international tourism. Indeed even when people go overseas, the most preferred destinations are Guam and Hawaii, as they're seen as acceptably close and familiar destinations.
- iagooar 3y agoSounds like Japan had a massive fear campaign around Covid that might make Japanese people less likely to be willing to travel. It is a pity, although this will make Japan stay more authentic for longer, as the less Japanese people travel, the more distance there will be between Western culture and them. As someone who might want to visit Japan some day this might even be good news.
- cryptoaquinas 3y agoThe best destinations for Japanese ppl used to be Europe & America aka “the West”. Now these places are increasingly becoming unsafe thanks to garbage progressive policies.
- thfuran 3y agoWhat?
- wrp 3y agoIt's the expected inconvenience. TFA points this out rather indirectly, but I've been hearing from Japanese for years that they are dissuaded from travel by the expected hassles of going to countries that run less smoothly than Japan (which is nearly any place).
- bemmu 3y agoAside from natural disasters, (almost?) anywhere is also more dangerous than Japan. Also, the expected length of a trip abroad is shorter. There are half as many vacation days as in many other countries. By the time you're done with flights and acclimated to the time difference, you need to start thinking about going back. This also makes the per-day cost of a trip high. After moving to Japan I've also become reluctant to travel!
- gadilif 3y agoI don't know. Personal opinion follows, YMMV: I've been to Tokyo recently. The subway system is much less convenient than, let's say, NYC. There are multiple operators, you need to purchase tickets separately to each one, it's not obvious for a tourist to understand the reasoning, and you can't pay with credit card (in 2023...), You need to either purchase a special card from a desk, or pay cash. In 2023. I consider that a hassle (it actually surprised me, I envisioned Tokyo as the city of the future. It is indeed, only it seems to be the future of 1993, sadly not of 2023).
- makeitdouble 3y agoYou could have bought a Suica or PASMO card (whichever, didn't matter), max it out, and not think about it for a week or so. That's what I did with my parents a while ago, they even paid their small stuff at the convenience store with it. I'm not sure they even remembered how cash looked like during their trip. To your point, yes, the railway system is clearly the futur, almost solely because of the Felica cosystem.
- discordance 3y agoYou can use your suica/pasmo on your phone, and recharge using Apple or Google pay. Works really well.
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y agoI had a job that had me traveling a lot. I got very used to international travel, alone. I thought I’d miss it, when I retired. That turns out not to be the case. The thought of getting onto a plane, turns my stomach. I like being other places, but the process of getting there, has become a nightmare. I’ve been traveling internationally, since I was a child. Things have changed.
- busterarm 3y agoI would even say that since the pandemic, traveling has become nightmarish. Airlines and car rental companies are outright pulling scams on their customers to get them to overpay. They create inconveniences that you can only pay your way out of. If you're lucky. Hertz is so disorganized that they mistakenly report their own customers to law enforcement for Grand Theft Auto and then even double down in light of evidence they've fucked up. Also quietly over the last few years, the credit card companies have been taking ownership stakes in most of these travel-oriented businesses and will now deny your chargebacks that they should be honoring.
- red-iron-pine 3y agoi dont know if it would turn my stomach, but i have never had an experience in an airport that i'd describe as good -- best case, described as "not bad". its a fundamentally miserable experience, and the stealth fees, high costs, and general bullshittery make me hate it.
- AwaAwa 3y agoAll my "not bad" experiences from the last few decades of travel, seem like heaven compared to travel today. And I don't think it's rose tinted nostalgia.
- fuzzythinker 3y agoHave you had much experience with trains? Would replacing flights with trains alleviate your dread (if somehow the world is connected with trains)?
- JSavageOne 3y agoI'd imagine one of the largest reasons if not the largest would be the lack of vacation days, which the article doesn't even mention.
- lobochrome 3y agoWe have similar amounts of vacation than EU.
- jalapenos 3y agoIf "we" is Japan, no you don't.
- weberer 3y agoDo you have any proof? I don't trust HN comments to talk about other countries vacation days, since I see too many people here say Americans get no vacation days, yet every company I've worked at in the USA offered 15-20 days.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago15-20 days that usually included sick days, and with high levels of pressure NOT to take any of them. plus this is HN, so "every company I've ever worked for" is almost certainly a white collar STEM gig -- which ain't 90% of the country.
- signatoremo 3y agoNo it doesn’t include sick days. Not usually, not in the last 20 years. Where did you get that idea from? High pressure not to take it? I doubt you can say that with any level of confidence.
- weberer 3y ago>that usually included sick days, and with high levels of pressure NOT to take any of them These are both also untrue based on my experience.
- Mizoguchi 3y agoI spent some time in Japan a decade ago and made some good Japanese friends. But I got to know a bit about their life work imbalance and it makes the US look like Europe. Combined with the hassle of traveling in a world of rude tourists, influencers, scammers and crappy airlines I completely understand why Japanese would be reluctant to leave their country.
- marginalia_nu 3y agoI kinda wish more countries would adopt this mindset. Tourism and the hospitality industry is incredibly scummy, and all the people flocking to take original pictures holding up leaning tower of piza[1] are contributing to the problem. Almost anything evil you can think of ranging from money laundering, theft, smuggling, all the way to sex trafficking and child prostitution. It all becomes so much easier if run out of a hotel. Often a cash business, often anonymous, people from all over come and go and even if the card requires registration and card payments there's still a lot of plausible deniability. [1] http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-59WY5njH9CA/UZUfoKQjitI/AAAAAAAAFWQ/KkoJAYfpxYs/s1600/xxxThe-Same-Photograph-At-The-Leaning-Tower-Of-Pisa-768-full.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-59WY5njH9CA/UZUfoKQjitI/AAAAAAAAFW...
- martin_henk 3y agoMost japanese have time to travel around the same three weeks a year: over new years, the golden week in early may or middle of August for the Obon holidays. Prices for everything travel related skyrocket around these three weeks. Work ethic being what it is, for most there is no other time to travel than in high season. In the current uncertain economic climate and weak yen this is even more unappealing than it was before.
- Xcelerate 3y agoIt's interesting that views on travel vary so much. Even in the U.S., it seems there are "travelers" and "non-travelers". I have been wanting to go to Japan since before the pandemic, so I asked some friends and family members if they want to go too. "Nah, I'm fine looking at photos. Plus 12 hours is a long time to sit on a plane." Long time?! That process used to take months. We Americans sit in office chairs and in front of televisions for hours with no problem. I can understand financial or health reasons for not traveling (or having small children), but I've never understood the reluctance to sit in a chair for a mere half day or less in exchange for making it halfway around the world.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoThe complaints about airports in this thread I also can’t relate to. The most damning thing people list is usually like, “the lines were long, i had to take off my shoes.” Patience is the best life hack you can make. With patience, you can go to an environment like an airport or trafficky road not harm you at all since you are indifferent. Think of all the people running around stressed out to various destinations while traveling: thats all self imposed stress. Learn to sit and wait and just let it go because it doesn’t serve you to be so stressed.
- SapporoChris 3y agoCompletely agree with the remarks on patience. I will add that the source of my patience tends to be being well rested. If I am well rested I am sympathetic to the mother with the crying child. If I lack rest then she is a terrible mother. Happily I am beginning to slowly recognize when my irritation is from lack of rest and that does help moderate the situation somewhat.
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- Crywastaken 3y agoThere is street view /YouTube video from travels. Order some food or cook new dish. want hike just run With sun is a little problem because you can't make country hotter but you can go to swimming pool.30°C + temp isn't good for your electronics. You can replace travel with computer. I just can't/won't overpriced everything
- Crywastaken 3y agoWhat even is great about Travel? I only see cons...
- arbitrary_name 3y agoI went to slovenia with my cousin and we stayed at a wonderful Airbnb. The host brewed his own beer, and we drank it while hiking the mountains, and while paddling a canoe across the lake there. The countryside was beautiful, the people were kind, wildflowers and fruit trees everywhere. We learned so much about the country and it's history, encountered dishes we had never tasted, and fell in love with a life that would only ever be a fleeting memory. I think about that trip constantly even though i have had many since. I understand why you might not want to travel, but... I don't sympathize, as it appears you do not sympathize with those who do travel. To each their own, eh?
- ldehaan 3y ago[dead]
- johnea 3y agoOne thing not mentioned is Japan's "Always Working" culture. Most people are working for years without a break.
- GonzagueGB 3y agoBeen living 21 years in Japan. And while the world has a lot to offer, Japan has everything you need : Tropical Islands, gorgeous mountains/ country side and freezing cold places and amazing snow in winter. So why would want to go overseas? No need for visa/long flight…