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I recall reading in the news recently about a trucker who was upset with the system as his normal route meant he had to take his sleeping break 20 minutes from

I recall reading in the news recently about a trucker who was upset with the system as his normal route meant he had to take his sleeping break 20 minutes from home. He'd then had to drive those 20 minutes home before he could get off his shift. Due to the electronic monitoring he couldn't just drive those extra 20 minutes and sleep in his own bed. I know I'd be pretty mad.

Stranger43 3y ago
Yep but isn't the problem that his employor demand that he drives right to the limit of his legal limit on corporate time and leaves no buffer for say getting home. The limits on time is not meant to be "norms" but extreme cases so if they are hit daily thats an indication the the culture in the industry is rotten more then anything else.
- magicalhippo 3y ago
  From what I recall, it was a fixed route. Like drive to a factory, pick up goods, drive back and deliver at docks. Sure, an edge case. But inflexible rules lead to more edge cases.
  - gambiting 3y ago
    So what it means is that if he could, he would have exceeded the allowed time every single day just to get home? That's not great either. Also you need to decide what flexibility is ok - is doing extra 20 miles fine? How about 30? How about 60? At which point do you say ok, now you're just taking the piss and this isn't ok.
    - magicalhippo 3y ago
      Indeed, that is the problem. If he drove this route once or twice a week it would probably be fine. Every day, perhaps not? Then again, he argued he sleeps much better at home... And yeah, adding flexibility is very difficult, simple rules are better as such. And of course, if they add an exception for drivers to get home, I'm sure the companies would exploit that in their route planning. Not easy either way.
  - michaelt 3y ago
    > But inflexible rules lead to more edge cases. Or alternately a normal working day is 8 hours, and a 10 hour daily limit allows a supremely flexible 2 hours of overtime :)
  - Aloha 3y ago
    I suspect the issue was a variable amount of detainment while loading or unloading - sometimes the dock was fast - as soon as you bump the dock there is a fork truck in the trailer moving the shit out, sometimes you'd wait for four hours to be loaded or unloaded. All of that is out of the control of the driver and the company. The current structure of the industry has little market pressure to force the shippers to be better behaved.
- K0balt 3y ago
  Many truckers are paid by the mile and have total discretion, but need to push the limits to make a decent wage. More pay is the answer here, as usual.
- Aloha 3y ago
  It's rare to hit your driving hours while driving, but you'll often run out of on duty hours first. Often those issues, detainment at shippers, whatever - is beyond your employers control.
yard2010 3y ago
This is like the definition of a dystopia. Some obscure "public" needs, being put before someone personal individual needs, enforced by a random computer.
- alistairSH 3y ago
  The guy wants to drive an unsafe distance/time every day. How is it dystopian that rules and tech prevent this? If he wants to get home, he can move closer or find another route. Or park the truck and drive his personal vehicle.
  - magicalhippo 3y ago
    I don't feel one can categorically call it an "unsafe distance". Less safe, sure. As mentioned his counterpoint is that he'd sleep better at home, so the next day he'd be more rested than he currently gets when he has to sleep in his cab. So in effect it's trading less safe driving today vs less safe driving tomorrow. Anyway, I'm not at all against regulations in this field. Drivers have been overworked hard and a tired driver on the road, regardless of occupation, is dangerous.
    - alistairSH 3y ago
      Sure, but society has deemed that 10 hours is the safe limit. Is it an absolute? Only in the sense that we have to draw a line somewhere, because bad actors will abuse soft limits.
  - kotaKat 3y ago
    If he's unloaded, bobtailing, and driving back home there's technically an exemption for "personal conveyance"; many trucking companies don't always enable PC mode because drivers will abuse the feature to advance a load (which is illegal under PC rules).
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
    Safe/unsafe aren't binary in this case. It doesn't flip from 0 to 1 just because he drove an extra 20 minutes. The "unsafety" of driving was non-zero all along, and the longer he goes without a rest break make it climb ever so higher. Saying that this factor was safe when it was 0.9000 but as soon as it rolled over to 0.9001 it was unsafe is asinine. Likely, enforcing such a rest stop could make it more unsafe... if after the rest he was in a hurry to head home, or groggy from an impromptu nap, or even if driving or lighting conditions had changed. > If he wants to get home, he can move closer or find another route. Neither of these are practical, in the "completely unachievable in the real world by real people" meaning of the word.

Stranger43 3y ago

Yep but isn't the problem that his employor demand that he drives right to the limit of his legal limit on corporate time and leaves no buffer for say getting home. The limits on time is not meant to be "norms" but extreme cases so if they are hit daily thats an indication the the culture in the industry is rotten more then anything else.

magicalhippo 3y ago
From what I recall, it was a fixed route. Like drive to a factory, pick up goods, drive back and deliver at docks. Sure, an edge case. But inflexible rules lead to more edge cases.
- gambiting 3y ago
  So what it means is that if he could, he would have exceeded the allowed time every single day just to get home? That's not great either. Also you need to decide what flexibility is ok - is doing extra 20 miles fine? How about 30? How about 60? At which point do you say ok, now you're just taking the piss and this isn't ok.
  - magicalhippo 3y ago
    Indeed, that is the problem. If he drove this route once or twice a week it would probably be fine. Every day, perhaps not? Then again, he argued he sleeps much better at home... And yeah, adding flexibility is very difficult, simple rules are better as such. And of course, if they add an exception for drivers to get home, I'm sure the companies would exploit that in their route planning. Not easy either way.
- michaelt 3y ago
  > But inflexible rules lead to more edge cases. Or alternately a normal working day is 8 hours, and a 10 hour daily limit allows a supremely flexible 2 hours of overtime :)
- Aloha 3y ago
  I suspect the issue was a variable amount of detainment while loading or unloading - sometimes the dock was fast - as soon as you bump the dock there is a fork truck in the trailer moving the shit out, sometimes you'd wait for four hours to be loaded or unloaded. All of that is out of the control of the driver and the company. The current structure of the industry has little market pressure to force the shippers to be better behaved.
K0balt 3y ago
Many truckers are paid by the mile and have total discretion, but need to push the limits to make a decent wage. More pay is the answer here, as usual.
Aloha 3y ago
It's rare to hit your driving hours while driving, but you'll often run out of on duty hours first. Often those issues, detainment at shippers, whatever - is beyond your employers control.

yard2010 3y ago

This is like the definition of a dystopia. Some obscure "public" needs, being put before someone personal individual needs, enforced by a random computer.

alistairSH 3y ago
The guy wants to drive an unsafe distance/time every day. How is it dystopian that rules and tech prevent this? If he wants to get home, he can move closer or find another route. Or park the truck and drive his personal vehicle.
- magicalhippo 3y ago
  I don't feel one can categorically call it an "unsafe distance". Less safe, sure. As mentioned his counterpoint is that he'd sleep better at home, so the next day he'd be more rested than he currently gets when he has to sleep in his cab. So in effect it's trading less safe driving today vs less safe driving tomorrow. Anyway, I'm not at all against regulations in this field. Drivers have been overworked hard and a tired driver on the road, regardless of occupation, is dangerous.
  - alistairSH 3y ago
    Sure, but society has deemed that 10 hours is the safe limit. Is it an absolute? Only in the sense that we have to draw a line somewhere, because bad actors will abuse soft limits.
- kotaKat 3y ago
  If he's unloaded, bobtailing, and driving back home there's technically an exemption for "personal conveyance"; many trucking companies don't always enable PC mode because drivers will abuse the feature to advance a load (which is illegal under PC rules).
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
  Safe/unsafe aren't binary in this case. It doesn't flip from 0 to 1 just because he drove an extra 20 minutes. The "unsafety" of driving was non-zero all along, and the longer he goes without a rest break make it climb ever so higher. Saying that this factor was safe when it was 0.9000 but as soon as it rolled over to 0.9001 it was unsafe is asinine. Likely, enforcing such a rest stop could make it more unsafe... if after the rest he was in a hurry to head home, or groggy from an impromptu nap, or even if driving or lighting conditions had changed. > If he wants to get home, he can move closer or find another route. Neither of these are practical, in the "completely unachievable in the real world by real people" meaning of the word.