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I've been arguing for years with vegans who drink copious amounts for thyroid-damaging kale and kidney-stone-forming spinach juices. Many of the plants are rich

I've been arguing for years with vegans who drink copious amounts for thyroid-damaging kale and kidney-stone-forming spinach juices. Many of the plants are rich in anti-nutrients and natural toxins to weed off predators. Having a normal-size salad is one thing, drinking 2 pounds of kale is something else. People should learn more abou Hormesis and why too much of the bad thing is bad and too little of it is a good thing. Every nutrient and intervention has an optimal range - below and over it turns detrimental to health. Drink too much water and you die from brain swelling; drink too little and you dry from dehydration - everything works around this example although ranges may dynamically vary from day to day. Things are not as simple as we want them to be (for our convenience).

tomcar288 3y ago
Fact check: Kale only has 20mg of oxalates per 100g which means 2 lbs has about 180mg of oxalates. https://e-cnr.org/ViewImage.php?Type=TH&aid=487614&id=T9&afn=9994_CNR_4_3_137&fn=cnr-4-137-i009_9994CNR https://e-cnr.org/ViewImage.php?Type=TH&aid=487614&id=T9&afn... 180mg of oxalates isn't that much. Most people consume 200 to 300 mg of oxalates per day: https://www.webmd.com/diet/foods-high-in-oxalates https://www.webmd.com/diet/foods-high-in-oxalates and with regards to water. I believe, it's when you sip on water all day that the danger of brain swelling occurs because your body looses the ability to gauge how much water is in it's system and doesn't quite know how much to excrete. too much of anything isn't good. it's time to start embracing less. it's okay to drink a bit too much water at once because your body can excrete it without problems.
- nikolay 3y ago
  Kale has goitrogens - that's why I said "thyroid-damaging."
- SECProto 3y ago
  They highlighted spinach for the kidney stones (i.e. oxalates). Per your chart, they are at 970 mg/100g, so two pounds of spinach would be roughly 9000mg of oxalates.
  - darth_avocado 3y ago
    One of the reason I eat raw spinach only in moderation. It’s a completely different story however if you cook it. You could blanch spinach and then crush it into your soothie and all the oxalates would be broken down.
    - SECProto 3y ago
      As this disagreed with recommendation I had from a doctor, I just looked it up. Cooking spinach certainly reduces oxalates, maybe about 50%. It does not eliminate them.
mito88 3y ago
you meant plants, not plans. am I right?
- nikolay 3y ago
  Yes, thank you!
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
The thing to me that is so ironic about juicing is that most people who are super into things like juicing and "juice cleanses" (whatever the hell that means) are totally against "processed" foods. I'm like "What do you think a juicer is??" You just took that natural plant that's loaded with healthy fiber, removed all the fiber and concentrated it so it's mostly sugar and water. If you process it at home it's still processed.
- zer8k 3y ago
  This is arguing semantics really. When people say "processed" they don't mean run through a blender, or mashed in a bowl, etc. They mean food that is processed industrially with a bunch of (usually unnecessary) chemicals added to stabilize or enrich the food. Oreos are a processed food. Cake you make at home from whole ingredients is not processed. You are correct technically (the best kind of correct) but in every day speech they are different. Your greater point I agree with though. People who drink vegetable smoothies don't realize all that delicious sugar those vegetables have is now streamlined because they destroyed the fiber. But hey! It's healthy!
  - maxerickson 3y ago
    Which ingredient in Oreos make them different than a home made cake? https://www.mondelezinternationalfoodservice.com/Product/ProductDetails/ProductId=10019320002004 https://www.mondelezinternationalfoodservice.com/Product/Pro... Like the flour you use to make a cake has been altered from its whole state more than a little bit. So has the sugar. And of course, both ingredients are used in Oreos, for roughly the same reasons you'd use them at home. I suppose most people don't cook with palm oil and soy lecithin.
    - generalizations 3y ago
      Not going to bother with reformatting (on my phone): PALM OIL, SOYBEAN AND/OR CANOLA OIL…HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP…SOY LECITHIN…ARTIFICIAL FLAVOR
namaria 3y ago
We evolved to thrive on a varied diet and we do best when we have access to many different sources of nutrition from plants to animals. Trying to simplify things for the sake of some worldview or another will damage your health.

tomcar288 3y ago

Fact check: Kale only has 20mg of oxalates per 100g which means 2 lbs has about 180mg of oxalates. https://e-cnr.org/ViewImage.php?Type=TH&aid=487614&id=T9&afn=9994_CNR_4_3_137&fn=cnr-4-137-i009_9994CNR https://e-cnr.org/ViewImage.php?Type=TH&aid=487614&id=T9&afn... 180mg of oxalates isn't that much. Most people consume 200 to 300 mg of oxalates per day: https://www.webmd.com/diet/foods-high-in-oxalates https://www.webmd.com/diet/foods-high-in-oxalates and with regards to water. I believe, it's when you sip on water all day that the danger of brain swelling occurs because your body looses the ability to gauge how much water is in it's system and doesn't quite know how much to excrete. too much of anything isn't good. it's time to start embracing less. it's okay to drink a bit too much water at once because your body can excrete it without problems.

nikolay 3y ago
Kale has goitrogens - that's why I said "thyroid-damaging."
SECProto 3y ago
They highlighted spinach for the kidney stones (i.e. oxalates). Per your chart, they are at 970 mg/100g, so two pounds of spinach would be roughly 9000mg of oxalates.
- darth_avocado 3y ago
  One of the reason I eat raw spinach only in moderation. It’s a completely different story however if you cook it. You could blanch spinach and then crush it into your soothie and all the oxalates would be broken down.
  - SECProto 3y ago
    As this disagreed with recommendation I had from a doctor, I just looked it up. Cooking spinach certainly reduces oxalates, maybe about 50%. It does not eliminate them.

mito88 3y ago

you meant plants, not plans. am I right?

nikolay 3y ago
Yes, thank you!

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

The thing to me that is so ironic about juicing is that most people who are super into things like juicing and "juice cleanses" (whatever the hell that means) are totally against "processed" foods. I'm like "What do you think a juicer is??" You just took that natural plant that's loaded with healthy fiber, removed all the fiber and concentrated it so it's mostly sugar and water. If you process it at home it's still processed.

zer8k 3y ago
This is arguing semantics really. When people say "processed" they don't mean run through a blender, or mashed in a bowl, etc. They mean food that is processed industrially with a bunch of (usually unnecessary) chemicals added to stabilize or enrich the food. Oreos are a processed food. Cake you make at home from whole ingredients is not processed. You are correct technically (the best kind of correct) but in every day speech they are different. Your greater point I agree with though. People who drink vegetable smoothies don't realize all that delicious sugar those vegetables have is now streamlined because they destroyed the fiber. But hey! It's healthy!
- maxerickson 3y ago
  Which ingredient in Oreos make them different than a home made cake? https://www.mondelezinternationalfoodservice.com/Product/ProductDetails/ProductId=10019320002004 https://www.mondelezinternationalfoodservice.com/Product/Pro... Like the flour you use to make a cake has been altered from its whole state more than a little bit. So has the sugar. And of course, both ingredients are used in Oreos, for roughly the same reasons you'd use them at home. I suppose most people don't cook with palm oil and soy lecithin.
  - generalizations 3y ago
    Not going to bother with reformatting (on my phone): PALM OIL, SOYBEAN AND/OR CANOLA OIL…HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP…SOY LECITHIN…ARTIFICIAL FLAVOR

namaria 3y ago

We evolved to thrive on a varied diet and we do best when we have access to many different sources of nutrition from plants to animals. Trying to simplify things for the sake of some worldview or another will damage your health.