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Society does not dictate the truth; the truth should dictate society. If the “truth” gathered from a particular standpoint does not align with your values, you

Society does not dictate the truth; the truth should dictate society. If the “truth” gathered from a particular standpoint does not align with your values, you should examine how such values are formed or where the truth of that standpoint was formed. Only then will you begin to form any concept of the “truth” which is in itself a fascinating and multi-dimensional entity who can dissolve your ego and your convictions.

ShellfishMeme 3y ago
What does "truth" even mean here? All of these things are about society, culture and the human experience. There's no universal truth to be found there. The best I can do is apply the categorical imperative influenced by my cultural context, upbringing and personal experiences.
- mattnewton 3y ago
  Well for one thing a useful definition of “true” would let us decide ethical problems without lapsing into navel gazing until the sun blows up.
  - jncfhnb 3y ago
    True ethics don’t exist
  - pixl97 3y ago
    The problem I have here with your statement, is you have no idea what your definition even entails energy/entropy wise. Just defining the axioms here will take much more time and energy than we have until the sun blows up. Then the combinatorial explosions of ought conditions to step your simulation forward means you'll need Grahams number of time/entropy.
    - pixl97 3y ago
      I just saw today that Innuendo Studios has an excellent video on this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF98ii6r_gU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF98ii6r_gU "You Can't Get Snakes from Chicken Eggs"
seanhunter 3y ago
Surely truth (or lack of truth) is an attribute of factual claims? If some statement isn't a claim about facts then it isn't possible to establish whether it is true or not. Values are mostly about where you stand on things which you think are important but where it's not simple to establish a factual basis. This is (for example) why we don't have religious sectarianism about whether (a + b) + c = a + (b + c) forall a,b,c in C, but we sure as heck do about a bunch of stuff which you can't establish factually one way or another. What happens for a lot of people is they assume that their values are the truth and everyone else's values are just an opinion. Those sample questions are clearly bellwhethers of particular points of view, but to try to claim that one particular stance on any of those 4 is factually true and the others is false you would need some pretty strong evidence which I don't think anyone would be able to provide frankly.

ShellfishMeme 3y ago

What does "truth" even mean here? All of these things are about society, culture and the human experience. There's no universal truth to be found there. The best I can do is apply the categorical imperative influenced by my cultural context, upbringing and personal experiences.

mattnewton 3y ago
Well for one thing a useful definition of “true” would let us decide ethical problems without lapsing into navel gazing until the sun blows up.
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  True ethics don’t exist
- pixl97 3y ago
  The problem I have here with your statement, is you have no idea what your definition even entails energy/entropy wise. Just defining the axioms here will take much more time and energy than we have until the sun blows up. Then the combinatorial explosions of ought conditions to step your simulation forward means you'll need Grahams number of time/entropy.
  - pixl97 3y ago
    I just saw today that Innuendo Studios has an excellent video on this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF98ii6r_gU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF98ii6r_gU "You Can't Get Snakes from Chicken Eggs"

seanhunter 3y ago

Surely truth (or lack of truth) is an attribute of factual claims? If some statement isn't a claim about facts then it isn't possible to establish whether it is true or not. Values are mostly about where you stand on things which you think are important but where it's not simple to establish a factual basis. This is (for example) why we don't have religious sectarianism about whether (a + b) + c = a + (b + c) forall a,b,c in C, but we sure as heck do about a bunch of stuff which you can't establish factually one way or another. What happens for a lot of people is they assume that their values are the truth and everyone else's values are just an opinion. Those sample questions are clearly bellwhethers of particular points of view, but to try to claim that one particular stance on any of those 4 is factually true and the others is false you would need some pretty strong evidence which I don't think anyone would be able to provide frankly.