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I don't think it should be necessary for a person to "work", however every human being should find some productive and meaningful activity that helps their fami

I don't think it should be necessary for a person to "work", however every human being should find some productive and meaningful activity that helps their family and community, whether that's "work" or something else. Humans are a social species and we are not designed to wallow in our own selfishness devoid of any responsibilities or meaning. Humans derive pleasure from doing things that benefit others and seeing the results of that effort, whether that qualifies as "work" or not. It is not required to have a capitalistic mindset to understand the inherent value of "work" apart from the reality of scarcity.

paulcole 3y ago
I disagree with your whole comment. You’re painting humans with a pretty broad brush and it’s the kind of thing religions were designed for. Force people into thinking the One True Way that they have to do something to find meaning, when meaning really comes from within. Why would anybody listen to someone else on this? (the irony is not lost on me here). We get one life and it’s up to everyone to decide for themselves the “right” way to spend it.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  Physical and mental work is good for the mind and the spirit. Without the two, a person starts to decay. I think a ton of people who never did a days physical work in their life would benefit greatly if they were put to work, so they could know at least what it is. It's like the gym. Our gut reaction is to avoid it, but it makes you feel great physically and mentally, clears away some fog.
  - paulcole 3y ago
    > Physical and mental work is good for the mind and the spirit. I agree that this can be true, but lack of physical work and lack of mental work can also be good for the spirit. Your spirit isn’t the same as everybody else’s. > Without the two, a person starts to decay You might start to decay, but you’re not everybody. > I think a ton of people who never did a days physical work in their life would benefit greatly if they were put to work, And I think a ton of people who overvalue a days physical work should be made to sit quietly, do nothing, and chill the heck out. Your gut reaction is to avoid it but but it makes you feel great physically and mentally, clears away some fog.
    - carlosjobim 3y ago
      People aren't different when it comes to these things. Eating healthy is beneficial for every single individual. Physical exercise is beneficial for every single individual. The same goes for the mental and spiritual side of things: exercise is beneficial and nobody is an exception. Doesn't mean we shouldn't rest our body and our soul.
      - paulcole 3y ago
        Is it physical exercise that’s beneficial for everyone or a physical day’s work? I do not believe that a physical day’s work is needed for everyone and that most people who believe it’s necessary for themselves believe it because they don’t know and can’t imagine anything else. The idea that people need to work is just boring and unimaginative to me.
        carlosjobim 3y ago
        > I do not believe that a physical day’s work is needed for everyone and that most people who believe it’s necessary for themselves believe it because they don’t know and can’t imagine anything else. If somebody has never had a physical day's work in their life, they are incompletely developed. "Unimaginative" you say, when there are thousands upon thousands of things you can do within the category physical work. I'm from a place where there are a huge percentage of the population who have never done a day's work. From childhood to school to universities to office jobs. These people might be successful in measurements of wealth and income, but they also become stunted in many aspects of life. Just as somebody who never learns to write or read.
jamilton 3y ago
Why should they? For what reason? If they do nothing productive and meaningful, don't hurt anyone, and don't desire to change, what is the reason they should change? "They should change because they will likely feel pleasure from it" does not seem like a sufficient reason, there are lots of things people will likely feel pleasure from that I wouldn't say they "should" do. I don't think work has inherent value apart from the reality of scarcity that can't be fulfilled by things other than work.
- tristor 3y ago
  I don’t want to try to convince you otherwise so lets talk about reality. Due to the reality of scarcity, those who do no work and expect that they will be cared for do in fact harm others. Scamming government benefits and failing to contribute to society when you are entirely able is not just selfish, it directly damages society and harms those with legitimate needs as well. > Why should they? For what reason? If they do nothing productive and meaningful, don't hurt anyone, and don't desire to change, what is the reason they should change? As long as scarcity is real, the idea that you are owed an existence without work is beyond selfish and entitled, it is directly harmful. They /are/ hurting others.
  - paulcole 3y ago
    Scarcity exists but it isn’t real. It’s created by people to convince each other that we need to keep working. There are enough empty houses and apartments to house everyone, but there’s a bunch of people in a tent around the corner from my apartment. Food waste is astounding but people still go hungry.
    - tristor 3y ago
      The fact you believe this tells me you have a loose association with reality. There’s really nothing more to discuss. Food doesn’t appear on tables via magic, somebody gets their hands dirty. Commies aren’t known for their sensibilities, so I remain unsurprised.

paulcole 3y ago

I disagree with your whole comment. You’re painting humans with a pretty broad brush and it’s the kind of thing religions were designed for. Force people into thinking the One True Way that they have to do something to find meaning, when meaning really comes from within. Why would anybody listen to someone else on this? (the irony is not lost on me here). We get one life and it’s up to everyone to decide for themselves the “right” way to spend it.

carlosjobim 3y ago
Physical and mental work is good for the mind and the spirit. Without the two, a person starts to decay. I think a ton of people who never did a days physical work in their life would benefit greatly if they were put to work, so they could know at least what it is. It's like the gym. Our gut reaction is to avoid it, but it makes you feel great physically and mentally, clears away some fog.
- paulcole 3y ago
  > Physical and mental work is good for the mind and the spirit. I agree that this can be true, but lack of physical work and lack of mental work can also be good for the spirit. Your spirit isn’t the same as everybody else’s. > Without the two, a person starts to decay You might start to decay, but you’re not everybody. > I think a ton of people who never did a days physical work in their life would benefit greatly if they were put to work, And I think a ton of people who overvalue a days physical work should be made to sit quietly, do nothing, and chill the heck out. Your gut reaction is to avoid it but but it makes you feel great physically and mentally, clears away some fog.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    People aren't different when it comes to these things. Eating healthy is beneficial for every single individual. Physical exercise is beneficial for every single individual. The same goes for the mental and spiritual side of things: exercise is beneficial and nobody is an exception. Doesn't mean we shouldn't rest our body and our soul.
    - paulcole 3y ago
      Is it physical exercise that’s beneficial for everyone or a physical day’s work? I do not believe that a physical day’s work is needed for everyone and that most people who believe it’s necessary for themselves believe it because they don’t know and can’t imagine anything else. The idea that people need to work is just boring and unimaginative to me.
      - carlosjobim 3y ago
        > I do not believe that a physical day’s work is needed for everyone and that most people who believe it’s necessary for themselves believe it because they don’t know and can’t imagine anything else. If somebody has never had a physical day's work in their life, they are incompletely developed. "Unimaginative" you say, when there are thousands upon thousands of things you can do within the category physical work. I'm from a place where there are a huge percentage of the population who have never done a day's work. From childhood to school to universities to office jobs. These people might be successful in measurements of wealth and income, but they also become stunted in many aspects of life. Just as somebody who never learns to write or read.

jamilton 3y ago

Why should they? For what reason? If they do nothing productive and meaningful, don't hurt anyone, and don't desire to change, what is the reason they should change? "They should change because they will likely feel pleasure from it" does not seem like a sufficient reason, there are lots of things people will likely feel pleasure from that I wouldn't say they "should" do. I don't think work has inherent value apart from the reality of scarcity that can't be fulfilled by things other than work.

tristor 3y ago
I don’t want to try to convince you otherwise so lets talk about reality. Due to the reality of scarcity, those who do no work and expect that they will be cared for do in fact harm others. Scamming government benefits and failing to contribute to society when you are entirely able is not just selfish, it directly damages society and harms those with legitimate needs as well. > Why should they? For what reason? If they do nothing productive and meaningful, don't hurt anyone, and don't desire to change, what is the reason they should change? As long as scarcity is real, the idea that you are owed an existence without work is beyond selfish and entitled, it is directly harmful. They /are/ hurting others.
- paulcole 3y ago
  Scarcity exists but it isn’t real. It’s created by people to convince each other that we need to keep working. There are enough empty houses and apartments to house everyone, but there’s a bunch of people in a tent around the corner from my apartment. Food waste is astounding but people still go hungry.
  - tristor 3y ago
    The fact you believe this tells me you have a loose association with reality. There’s really nothing more to discuss. Food doesn’t appear on tables via magic, somebody gets their hands dirty. Commies aren’t known for their sensibilities, so I remain unsurprised.