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> > read the mission statements Musk has been making mission statements ever since the days of Paypal. It's been 30 long years. And he has never delivered tan

> > read the mission statements Musk has been making mission statements ever since the days of Paypal. It's been 30 long years. And he has never delivered tangible quality of life improvement for the avarage American You can hate on Gates and Bezos and Zuck, tell you what, I will be joining you in that fight. But the products and services that they signed off are everywhere in society and if you disappeared them you'd have chaos if not outright civil war by the end of the month. (Note that I said 'signed off' not 'built') Disappear Tesla and SpaceX and you'd have the manbun and big latte crowd throw a tantrum on ExTwitter and not much else. Life will go on as usual, for all practical purposes it's like you disappeared Tiffany&CO

reaperman 3y ago
> And he has never delivered tangible quality of life improvement for the avarage American Neither has Ferrari or Rolex but that doesn't make them failures. Most of Musk's companies deliver good value to customer, just not cash flow profits from revenue to the companies themselves. They do somehow still deliver profit to shareholders via stock price movements though. It's not clear if Tesla will ever achieve long-term cash flow solvency but for now most customers are happy, and most shareholders are happy. SpaceX seems like it won't be super difficult to achieve long-term positive cash flow. They're dumping tons of cash into Starship R&D but the expected returns are great. There really isn't any competition knocking on their door so they'll have at least a decade of uncontested pricing/margin dominance.
- JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
  > > Neither has Ferrari or Rolex but that doesn't make them failures In fact Rolex, Ferrari, Fender etc. aren't valued at 680 billions. They are valued like status symbol companies . Again like Tiffany & CO. As they should be, Musk convinced people that Tesla will deliver 'Standard Oil-esque type quality of life jump in the life of the avg. citizen. Instead it's just a Ferrari made in Silicon Valley. When people will wake up it's gonna hurt many people who believed in this dream, which was more a mirage tbh.
  - runnerup 3y ago
    I don’t know what you want us all to agree on here. It sounds like GP disputed you setting the bar at “should have improved the lives of most Americans”. That did seem like an unreasonable bar to judge companies by. It’s not super controversial that Tesla is likely overvalued, but shareholders generally still have a reasonable expectation of upside on new shares purchased so they continue to buy. I’d hope most of the qualified shareholders understand those returns are coming from speculation rather than valuation. “Silicon Valley” seems inaccurate, most Tesla employees are in Nevada, Texas and China. Also you talked about “Elons companies”, not just Tesla. The only company I can think of that maybe hadn’t been delivering value to both customers and shareholders is SolarCity. It’s acquisition was super sketchy but it no longer exists in any case.
    - JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
      > > I just disputed you setting the bar at “should have improved the lives of most Americans”. That seemed like an unreasonable bar to judge companies by, to me. No, for a company that has reached the status of top 5 most valuable it isn't unreasonable to ask for concrete quality of life improvement for most people. Moderna and BioNtech aren't even in the top500 and yet delivered quality of life on a global scale by de-facto ending the Covid pandemic
bradgessler 3y ago
> Disappear Tesla and SpaceX and you'd have the manbun and big latte crowd throw a tantrum on ExTwitter and not much else. Life will go on as usual, for all practical purposes it's like you disappeared Tiffany&CO Tell that to the people who depend on StarLink for rural internet access.
joachimma 3y ago
Really? If Microsoft disappeared we would see a massive jump in Linux and Mac usage. If Facebook/Instagram people would jump on the next social fad. If Amazon disappears people would buy there stuff from some BigBox store. If AWS disappears that would be really painful for a while before people adopt. On the other hand. If Tesla disappears all the competitors will keep milking their ICE cars, since none of there EV make any profit. If Starlink disappears Ukraine is fucked, yes even if Elon has secretly given Putin access to all the satellites or whatever is the rumor of the day.
bagels 3y ago
He makes a lot of false claims, but Starlink, and maybe Tesla essentially creating the market for electric cars?

reaperman 3y ago

> And he has never delivered tangible quality of life improvement for the avarage American Neither has Ferrari or Rolex but that doesn't make them failures. Most of Musk's companies deliver good value to customer, just not cash flow profits from revenue to the companies themselves. They do somehow still deliver profit to shareholders via stock price movements though. It's not clear if Tesla will ever achieve long-term cash flow solvency but for now most customers are happy, and most shareholders are happy. SpaceX seems like it won't be super difficult to achieve long-term positive cash flow. They're dumping tons of cash into Starship R&D but the expected returns are great. There really isn't any competition knocking on their door so they'll have at least a decade of uncontested pricing/margin dominance.

JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
> > Neither has Ferrari or Rolex but that doesn't make them failures In fact Rolex, Ferrari, Fender etc. aren't valued at 680 billions. They are valued like status symbol companies . Again like Tiffany & CO. As they should be, Musk convinced people that Tesla will deliver 'Standard Oil-esque type quality of life jump in the life of the avg. citizen. Instead it's just a Ferrari made in Silicon Valley. When people will wake up it's gonna hurt many people who believed in this dream, which was more a mirage tbh.
- runnerup 3y ago
  I don’t know what you want us all to agree on here. It sounds like GP disputed you setting the bar at “should have improved the lives of most Americans”. That did seem like an unreasonable bar to judge companies by. It’s not super controversial that Tesla is likely overvalued, but shareholders generally still have a reasonable expectation of upside on new shares purchased so they continue to buy. I’d hope most of the qualified shareholders understand those returns are coming from speculation rather than valuation. “Silicon Valley” seems inaccurate, most Tesla employees are in Nevada, Texas and China. Also you talked about “Elons companies”, not just Tesla. The only company I can think of that maybe hadn’t been delivering value to both customers and shareholders is SolarCity. It’s acquisition was super sketchy but it no longer exists in any case.
  - JumpinJack_Cash 3y ago
    > > I just disputed you setting the bar at “should have improved the lives of most Americans”. That seemed like an unreasonable bar to judge companies by, to me. No, for a company that has reached the status of top 5 most valuable it isn't unreasonable to ask for concrete quality of life improvement for most people. Moderna and BioNtech aren't even in the top500 and yet delivered quality of life on a global scale by de-facto ending the Covid pandemic

bradgessler 3y ago

> Disappear Tesla and SpaceX and you'd have the manbun and big latte crowd throw a tantrum on ExTwitter and not much else. Life will go on as usual, for all practical purposes it's like you disappeared Tiffany&CO Tell that to the people who depend on StarLink for rural internet access.

joachimma 3y ago

Really? If Microsoft disappeared we would see a massive jump in Linux and Mac usage. If Facebook/Instagram people would jump on the next social fad. If Amazon disappears people would buy there stuff from some BigBox store. If AWS disappears that would be really painful for a while before people adopt. On the other hand. If Tesla disappears all the competitors will keep milking their ICE cars, since none of there EV make any profit. If Starlink disappears Ukraine is fucked, yes even if Elon has secretly given Putin access to all the satellites or whatever is the rumor of the day.

bagels 3y ago

He makes a lot of false claims, but Starlink, and maybe Tesla essentially creating the market for electric cars?