4 ms·

One of the main arguments in the broader sports realm against trans women participating in women's divisions pertains to physical advantages due to testosterone

One of the main arguments in the broader sports realm against trans women participating in women's divisions pertains to physical advantages due to testosterone levels and other physiological differences. This argument doesn't hold water here. At face value it seems silly to have gender specific events, but I guess a valid reason might be to encourage participation.

womche 3y ago
[flagged]
- jacquesm 3y ago
  It is very much also about safety. Plenty of incidents in the chess world.
psychphysic 3y ago
It's for participation, much of the world has very strong women players. But not strong enough to do them justice in the open league. There might be brain differences that account for this a controversial one I've seen argued is that some autistic traits can be useful for chess training and men then to have those traits in greater numbers. That argument was made jokingly at a college chess club by one of the women, but given the overlap between autism and transgenderism I wonder if it's amplified?
- sverona 3y ago
  There's an argument to be made that ASD suffers from a severe selection bias wrt gender, and that its high incidence in late-transitioning women is actually the true base rate.
  - psychphysic 3y ago
    Not sure I follow although interested. Is the hypothesis that ASD is only over represented in male to female transitioners and do so younger but when all those have transitioned are considered there is no over representation of ASD? It make be hard to pick apart since ASD male to female rates are so lopsided.
    - sverona 3y ago
      The hypothesis is that ASD is severely underdiagnosed in those presenting female, and most often diagnosed in childhood or adolescence. Hence most late-transitioning women have a diagnosis from when their practitioner thought they were male.
      - psychphysic 3y ago
        I think it's well established that there are more autistic men than autistic women. At least to the point that I wouldn't challenge it with ideology alone. There is an awkwardness here. If transwomen didnt choose to feel like women we must accept it as a neurodovergent condition, why would there not be coexistence with other meurodovergent conditions?
        sverona 3y ago
        Indeed, why not? But overmedicalizing transness does nobody any good. I'm going to be honest with you, I don't really think this is a problem that needs solving. I haven't heard of a single trans GM, unlike the situation in powerlifting, cycling, etc. FIDE is infamously corrupt and this reeks to me of politics. It's also not hard to notice that it's mostly run by Eastern Europeans, usually from former Soviet satellite states, which have as a rule a dim opinion of trans people.
    - DoreenMichele 3y ago
      I raised two special-needs sons who likely qualify for a diagnosis of ASD but never got a formal diagnosis because I homeschooling them, so I didn't need an official diagnosis to accommodate their needs. Human children are raised for many years and a large part of social stuff is learned behavior. Some things can be explicitly taught to people whose brain wiring disinclined them to innately pick it up on their own. Girls are socialized differently from boys and it seems likely they are just expected to "get" social things even if they don't. They either get someone to explain it or they try harder than boys to cover up their deficits because it's more socially unacceptable. Not everything can be taught. Some social difficulties can be rooted in things like a lack of prosody or lack of ability to tone match can be extreme priblematic and cannot be fixed, at least not that I know of. But some things can be explained and to whatever degree it's learnable, if girls are simply more expected than boys to learn it, it's not unreasonable to suggest ASD is likely underdiagnosed in girls.

womche 3y ago

[flagged]

jacquesm 3y ago
It is very much also about safety. Plenty of incidents in the chess world.

psychphysic 3y ago

It's for participation, much of the world has very strong women players. But not strong enough to do them justice in the open league. There might be brain differences that account for this a controversial one I've seen argued is that some autistic traits can be useful for chess training and men then to have those traits in greater numbers. That argument was made jokingly at a college chess club by one of the women, but given the overlap between autism and transgenderism I wonder if it's amplified?

sverona 3y ago
There's an argument to be made that ASD suffers from a severe selection bias wrt gender, and that its high incidence in late-transitioning women is actually the true base rate.
- psychphysic 3y ago
  Not sure I follow although interested. Is the hypothesis that ASD is only over represented in male to female transitioners and do so younger but when all those have transitioned are considered there is no over representation of ASD? It make be hard to pick apart since ASD male to female rates are so lopsided.
  - sverona 3y ago
    The hypothesis is that ASD is severely underdiagnosed in those presenting female, and most often diagnosed in childhood or adolescence. Hence most late-transitioning women have a diagnosis from when their practitioner thought they were male.
    - psychphysic 3y ago
      I think it's well established that there are more autistic men than autistic women. At least to the point that I wouldn't challenge it with ideology alone. There is an awkwardness here. If transwomen didnt choose to feel like women we must accept it as a neurodovergent condition, why would there not be coexistence with other meurodovergent conditions?
      - sverona 3y ago
        Indeed, why not? But overmedicalizing transness does nobody any good. I'm going to be honest with you, I don't really think this is a problem that needs solving. I haven't heard of a single trans GM, unlike the situation in powerlifting, cycling, etc. FIDE is infamously corrupt and this reeks to me of politics. It's also not hard to notice that it's mostly run by Eastern Europeans, usually from former Soviet satellite states, which have as a rule a dim opinion of trans people.
  - DoreenMichele 3y ago
    I raised two special-needs sons who likely qualify for a diagnosis of ASD but never got a formal diagnosis because I homeschooling them, so I didn't need an official diagnosis to accommodate their needs. Human children are raised for many years and a large part of social stuff is learned behavior. Some things can be explicitly taught to people whose brain wiring disinclined them to innately pick it up on their own. Girls are socialized differently from boys and it seems likely they are just expected to "get" social things even if they don't. They either get someone to explain it or they try harder than boys to cover up their deficits because it's more socially unacceptable. Not everything can be taught. Some social difficulties can be rooted in things like a lack of prosody or lack of ability to tone match can be extreme priblematic and cannot be fixed, at least not that I know of. But some things can be explained and to whatever degree it's learnable, if girls are simply more expected than boys to learn it, it's not unreasonable to suggest ASD is likely underdiagnosed in girls.