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How timely. My boss just crucified a co-worker today in our meeting and I think something like this could help mend things. Yes, my boss never heard of "prais

• gottorf 3y ago
  Management by perkele!
  • yread 3y ago
    Is Finland now Eastern Europe? More like Kurwa management.
    • yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
      Poland is typically regarded as Central Europe.
      • rcbdev 3y ago
        By whom? Czechs (wholly western to Poland) are always called "Eastern Europeans" in contemporary media and or any place I have ever worked before.
        • yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
          By just about everyone in Poland, at least. Historically, “Eastern Europe” has been used as more of a derogatory signifier in places where it’s culturally acceptable to make jokes at the expense of Slavs, like in Germany or USA. Let’s not forget that Vienna is actually geographically further East than Prague, though I doubt many Austrians would be comfortable considering themselves Eastern European. Poland is pretty squarely in the middle of Europe by a number of metrics. If we’re talking about time zone, Poland uses Central European [Summer] Time. If we’re talking geographically, most of the claimants to the geographical midpoint of Europe are actually East of Poland. If we’re talking politically, then the midpoint of the European Union is said to be in Würzburg, which is only 470km South-West from the border with Poland. And we can hardly say that anything East of Würzburg is Eastern Europe, since that would include all of Austria.
          • cf141q5325 3y ago
            >Historically, “Eastern Europe” has been used as more of a derogatory signifier in places where it’s culturally acceptable to make jokes at the expense of Slavs, like in Germany or USA. I am calling bullshit. It simply referenced the Soviet zone. Eastern Europe was everything behind the iron curtain, including Eastern Germany. Everything else was Western Europe, including countries in the North and South of Europe. edit: Its also worth mentioning that framing that geopolitical conflict as racist is highly oversimplistic and counterproductive. The only upside i can think of is signaling and the stakes are far too high for such selfish endeavors. Stuff is just complicated and geopolitical conflicts even more so.
            • yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
              …And you're an authority on this topic are you?
              • cf141q5325 3y ago
                As one of the idiots living there yes, very much so. Calling the DDR Osteuropa can not be racist. I would however be happy to hear your qualification on this.
                • yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
                  If that's all it takes to speak authoritatively on the topic, then, greetings from Poland. I for one wouldn't describe myself as an idiot. As you are a person who has previously shared Kremlin propaganda on this website, I have nothing more to say to you. Good day.
                  • cf141q5325 3y ago
                    >I for one wouldn't describe myself as an idiot. That might be the problem and the reason for your unsupported overconfidence. And its no wonder given your unwillingness to consider different perspectives. You are welcome. edit: I would hope nobody sees that as a confirmation for the stereotype of Poles being racist. I see no reason to not suspect a Russian sock puppet and neither should you.
        • watwut 3y ago
          Czechs do not call themselves Eastern Europe.
          • rcbdev 3y ago
            The countries Czech people migrate to do, though.
            • kubanczyk 3y ago
              Do "the countries" want to live 30 years in the past, or do you? Dividing Europe primarily into western or eastern is utterly useless categorization, as of today. You might try to divide EU that way, and only EU. Classifying Czechs as closer to Russians than to Austrians does not have basis in today's economy, culture, geography, politics. It fits when you're considering a specific historical period or linguistics.
        • thecyborganizer 3y ago
          If you tell a Czech that they live in Eastern Europe, they will get very upset! They consider themselves to be in Central Europe. I learned this the hard way!
      • _0ffh 3y ago
        Depends if you go for geographical location or the iron curtain east/west distinction, which is still used by many and culturally relevant.
        • yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
          Just because it’s used, doesn’t make it valid. I don’t think the historical Iron Curtain is a useful means by which to make that distinction today. Unless you’re willing to proclaim to Berliners that you love being in Berlin despite it being in Eastern Europe. I think you would raise some eyebrows. Or fists.
          • cf141q5325 3y ago
            You can make the exact same argument for Russia and Turkey being European. This kind of vocabulary works through consensus about attached meaning. Usage determines validity. You can tell by there being no agreed upon geographic line on a map going through countries.
• breakingwalls 3y ago
  Very timely for me as well, have been having tough time with my partner especially about how unfriendly and critical I sound, even though my intentions are for general improvement and well being around home.
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  • TylerE 3y ago
    There is little less welcome than unsolicited "advice", especially coming from the person and place that are supposed to be the refuge from all the shit going on in the world.
    • fragmede 3y ago
      "Hey, are you open to feedback?" works wonders. Also be prepared for "no". This does require someone who's able to say no though, which isn't a given.
    • awb 3y ago
      A long-term partner probably knows you better than anyone. No one likes getting called out on their stuff, if you want to grow as a person or as a couple you’re going to move past that initial discomfort, reflect on it and then decide if it’s valid enough feedback to try to integrate it.
• belval 3y ago
  I just finished reading the culture map (an HN recommendation!) and it was actually very eye opening. This is not to excuse bad behaviour in the workplace, but it's entirely possible that depending on where he comes from in eastern europe that's just how tough feedback is given and he didn't perceive it as a "crucifiction".
  • function_seven 3y ago
    I felt slighted once when a former CEO of mine didn't lambast me on our weekly call. I took it to mean that I wasn't important enough to get the dressing down he was known for. (I mean, I was still relieved to avoid it! Just thought it was funny to feel disrespected because I got gentle treatment :)
• andrei_says_ 3y ago
  Hot blooded Eastern Europeans can learn, too. You do know the difference and concept. If it’s safe, educate.
  • glonq 3y ago
    It is not particularly safe. My boss has several positive attributes, but emotional intelligence is not one of them.
• vasco 3y ago
  Nobody should be crucified either in public or in private. But correcting mistakes and making it explicit to the whole team what the problem was and how we'll minimize the chances of reocurring is best done in front of the team. Everyone learns together, and most importantly, they see how you react to mistakes. They won't be afraid to talk about their mistakes if they see your normal reaction. It'll also feel less bad because now everyone is aware that everyone makes one every once in a while. Create a culture where nothing is a personal attack and performance is just what it is, instead of something to be ashamed of. In school all the kids get all their grades publicly, you don't get public grades if you do good and private grades if you do bad on the exam. And somehow we're all here and understood that it was what it was. The problem is that it was done as a "crucification". Shouting and blaming and being an ass to someone are wrong to do either in private or in public.
  • brightlancer 3y ago
    > Nobody should be crucified either in public or in private. Serious reprimands need to happen in private. We can use euphemisms or severe language, but sometimes people need to be told, "You fouled up, you were careless, you were indiscriminate, and your reckless mistake cost the company more money than you make in a year, which may cost someone ELSE their job because of budget cuts." Always remember that your foul-ups could cost someone their life or their livelihood. This isn't kindergarten. Adults need to be told honestly about the damage they caused.
  • IggleSniggle 3y ago
    Huh. In my schooling experience, all grades were quite private unless someone shared!
    • vasco 3y ago
      Woah! I just assumed this is how it worked everywhere. I might just need to re-think my whole stance and look this up. Thanks for sharing, I never thought to question it.
  • zestyping 3y ago
    The following case is interesting because it might fall in the space between what various folks on this thread consider acceptable. An engineer on my team once merged a change that created a security vulnerability, without review. We didn't have any real users on prod yet, and the potential impact was small. But I was still angry because I had given explicit instructions (speaking as the tech lead and the one with the most security experience) that all changes had to go through code review for security issues. I responded with an email message that was visible to the whole team (about 5 people). I knew it would sting, but I also wanted everyone to know that this was an important line not to cross, because at some point in the near future we did hope to have real users. I wrote, approximately, "You merged this change without review, and that's not okay. I explicitly told you not to do that. As a result, we now have a security vulnerability. Don't ever do that again." I am paraphrasing from memory, but the tone was not too far off from this: stern, direct criticism without personal attack. At the time, I held myself to a simple standard of communication: stating facts and criticising actions (even bluntly) was acceptable; any criticism of personal attributes was unacceptable. The engineer in question was very hurt and angry with me, and our working relationship was difficult for many weeks after that. Was I the asshole here? What's your standard of communication, and what would you do, from the point of view of the tech lead or as the engineer?
• balfirevic 3y ago
  > Welcome to working with a hot-blooded eastern european It's funny, one other commenter pointed out how you won't get far in Eastern Europe without saying "please" and "thank you" a lot. I'm from there and it's true - we have both rude and polite people!
  • watwut 3y ago
    The same person criticizing you can also use please and thank you. There is zero dichotomy between the two.