6 ms·

Yeah, national service without the violence is a nice option to have. Some say that's what started the end of the Great Depression, but the government lacked t

by gowld 3y ago

Yeah, national service without the violence is a nice option to have. Some say that's what started the end of the Great Depression, but the government lacked the confidence to fully invest until they got a violent war for justification.

vkou 3y ago
Not sure why this is such an unpopular opinion. There's no shortage of public work that needs to be done, there's no shortage of people[1] who want to do work, why not a national service that actually improves lives? [1] Well, okay, at this precise moment, unemployment is at historic lows, but that hasn't always been the case, and won't always be the case.
- drc500free 3y ago
  I think pretty much all public works projects are now viewed as "political," while military service is not. So we send the military in to do non-violent work. It's considered totally normal that a lot of domestic, civil projects are handled by the Army Corps of Engineers.
- nomat 3y ago
  The values system we have is very different compared to the 30s or 40s or even the 60s. The idea of a society where we all contribute and all benefit is dead and gone. The media has given up all pretense of caring and now preaches consumerism over god and country. Compromise is a sign of weakness. As is empathy for fellow citizens. In short, a big enough percentage of the people today don't want to improve the lives of their fellow americans, and they elect politicians to actively make this place worse. Many of our "intractable" issues are policy issues and are completely fixable within 1 or 2 generations and honestly have always been fixable.
  - rank0 3y ago
    This is a hilariously naive take. “My value system would create a utopia and everyone is evil because the world doesn’t subscribe to my nebulous beliefs” Real unique idea!
    - nomat 3y ago
      You are exactly the person i'm describing. the glee you feel from acting like this is the only time of the day you actually feel like your existence means anything, because you imagine it making someone else feel bad, which makes you feel good.
      - rank0 3y ago
        Take a look in the mirror dude. I called you naive and this was your response: “this is the only time of the day you actually feel like your existence means anything” You are gripped by ideology. Don’t train yourself to think everyone is evil and you know best. It isn’t true.
        nomat 3y ago
        because it's quite clear that this is your default attitude towards things and its absolutely toxic. you don't recognize it, and that is the issue. I don't think that everyone or even most people are evil. You're reading into the things i'm saying because you want me to be a certain type of person, but i am not.
    - zo1 3y ago
      We've been trying "your" value system for a while now, doesn't seem to be working. Not working is a nice way of saying degenerate, but no one seems to like that word right now.
      - rank0 3y ago
        Living standards have never been higher in the history of mankind. Go read some history! I’m not even sure what you’re advocating for, but blind anger at the world is senseless. You want to replace our current society with a new one? That could mean bloody, violent revolution. What do you even want? What does the world owe you?
  - gassius 3y ago
    Every time I find some idealized piece about the 30s and 40s, and specially in USA, I wonder what kind of history was taught to the writer and by whom was taught, what was the agenda behind this history instruction? I really hope we don't get back to any of that in 1, 2 or 100 generations
    - nomat 3y ago
      The concept of living in a society where people contribute to it for the benefit of the society instead of themselves is not a lamentable one. Regardless of whether or not nationalist propaganda is good or bad in your morality system, there's no civilization that lasts when the culture no longer believes in itself. The idea of america is how this country can keep going. Yes the reality is that we often fall short. But defeatist naysayers who decry any attempt at making things better are worse than turncoats.
- thomastjeffery 3y ago
  Employment does not resolve the entirety of public need. Even if every person is working, there will be public work that needs to be done.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
    I do (really high-Quality) nonprofit stuff, for free. I suspect that very few folks hereabouts, would find that prospect attractive. It’s mostly because I’m retired, enjoy working, and care about the folks that use the software I write.
- cbozeman 3y ago
  Unemployment is at historic lows because when people have been unemployed for over one year, or if they stop looking, they're no longer counted. It's not much different than China stopping the reporting on their current youth unemployment issue. "It's not a problem, because we're no longer studying it, therefore it is not a problem." I suspect the real, actual unemployment number in America is far higher than the official reports.
  - okaram 3y ago
    Unemployment is low because the economy is growing, and our population has been getting older on average. We have many different ways of measuring unemployment, which count different things. For example, employment to population ratio of prima age (25-54) is at 80.8%, just shy of the all time high of 81.9%. It is very different than China, and there's no information being hidden.

by gowld 3y ago

vkou 3y ago

Not sure why this is such an unpopular opinion. There's no shortage of public work that needs to be done, there's no shortage of people[1] who want to do work, why not a national service that actually improves lives? [1] Well, okay, at this precise moment, unemployment is at historic lows, but that hasn't always been the case, and won't always be the case.

drc500free 3y ago
I think pretty much all public works projects are now viewed as "political," while military service is not. So we send the military in to do non-violent work. It's considered totally normal that a lot of domestic, civil projects are handled by the Army Corps of Engineers.
nomat 3y ago
The values system we have is very different compared to the 30s or 40s or even the 60s. The idea of a society where we all contribute and all benefit is dead and gone. The media has given up all pretense of caring and now preaches consumerism over god and country. Compromise is a sign of weakness. As is empathy for fellow citizens. In short, a big enough percentage of the people today don't want to improve the lives of their fellow americans, and they elect politicians to actively make this place worse. Many of our "intractable" issues are policy issues and are completely fixable within 1 or 2 generations and honestly have always been fixable.
- rank0 3y ago
  This is a hilariously naive take. “My value system would create a utopia and everyone is evil because the world doesn’t subscribe to my nebulous beliefs” Real unique idea!
  - nomat 3y ago
    You are exactly the person i'm describing. the glee you feel from acting like this is the only time of the day you actually feel like your existence means anything, because you imagine it making someone else feel bad, which makes you feel good.
    - rank0 3y ago
      Take a look in the mirror dude. I called you naive and this was your response: “this is the only time of the day you actually feel like your existence means anything” You are gripped by ideology. Don’t train yourself to think everyone is evil and you know best. It isn’t true.
      - nomat 3y ago
        because it's quite clear that this is your default attitude towards things and its absolutely toxic. you don't recognize it, and that is the issue. I don't think that everyone or even most people are evil. You're reading into the things i'm saying because you want me to be a certain type of person, but i am not.
  - zo1 3y ago
    We've been trying "your" value system for a while now, doesn't seem to be working. Not working is a nice way of saying degenerate, but no one seems to like that word right now.
    - rank0 3y ago
      Living standards have never been higher in the history of mankind. Go read some history! I’m not even sure what you’re advocating for, but blind anger at the world is senseless. You want to replace our current society with a new one? That could mean bloody, violent revolution. What do you even want? What does the world owe you?
- gassius 3y ago
  Every time I find some idealized piece about the 30s and 40s, and specially in USA, I wonder what kind of history was taught to the writer and by whom was taught, what was the agenda behind this history instruction? I really hope we don't get back to any of that in 1, 2 or 100 generations
  - nomat 3y ago
    The concept of living in a society where people contribute to it for the benefit of the society instead of themselves is not a lamentable one. Regardless of whether or not nationalist propaganda is good or bad in your morality system, there's no civilization that lasts when the culture no longer believes in itself. The idea of america is how this country can keep going. Yes the reality is that we often fall short. But defeatist naysayers who decry any attempt at making things better are worse than turncoats.
thomastjeffery 3y ago
Employment does not resolve the entirety of public need. Even if every person is working, there will be public work that needs to be done.
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
  I do (really high-Quality) nonprofit stuff, for free. I suspect that very few folks hereabouts, would find that prospect attractive. It’s mostly because I’m retired, enjoy working, and care about the folks that use the software I write.
cbozeman 3y ago
Unemployment is at historic lows because when people have been unemployed for over one year, or if they stop looking, they're no longer counted. It's not much different than China stopping the reporting on their current youth unemployment issue. "It's not a problem, because we're no longer studying it, therefore it is not a problem." I suspect the real, actual unemployment number in America is far higher than the official reports.
- okaram 3y ago
  Unemployment is low because the economy is growing, and our population has been getting older on average. We have many different ways of measuring unemployment, which count different things. For example, employment to population ratio of prima age (25-54) is at 80.8%, just shy of the all time high of 81.9%. It is very different than China, and there's no information being hidden.