5 ms·

> how many 19-year-olds do you know who want to live in a dorm setting and show up on time? Sounds like all the young people in the military.

presidentender 3y ago
Is everyone suited for military service?
- poopbutt7 3y ago
  No, some people are not suited for military service.
- mistrial9 3y ago
  if everyone is expected to do it, then the character of the program changes.. I am guessing at that since many ordinary countries have mandatory government service. I doubt that everyone there is subjected to classical troops psychology training, which is not for everyone.
JohnFen 3y ago
And all freshman at the university my children went to, where all first-year students are required to live in the dorms.
- NoNotTheDuo 3y ago
  If you think that all of the freshman that lived in the dorms went to every class, much less showed up on time for every class, I've got some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you...
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    Where did I say I thought that? Although most do, because of the supervision. The "party problem" doesn't really start until sophomore year. Unless you're in a frat or sorority. Those count as "dorms" for the requirement, and are notorious.
    - eitally 3y ago
      Are you talking about a specific school, because there is almost 0 supervision (I would call what dorm RAs do as more "emergency oversight") and freshman absolutely party the same as upperclassmen & women. Also, you should know that many colleges & universities apply far greater oversight to frats & sororities these days than genpop, and many are dry.
      - JohnFen 3y ago
        Yes, I was specifically talking about the university my children went to, because it's the only one I know anything about. > because there is almost 0 supervision (I would call what dorm RAs do as more "emergency oversight") and freshman absolutely party the same as upperclassmen & women. I know that there are schools where this is true. But I also know there is at least one school where this is certainly not true.
        wholinator2 3y ago
        I have to add that every school I've been to, or known anyone from has had a sort-of freshman integration process for partying where the kids are driven to the houses and supplied with alcohol and encouraged to party and have sex. _Especially_ the women, it's actually incomparable. They are instantly picked over by the upperclassmen and delivered and encouraged to party every weekend of every semester. Sure they live in a dorm but everyone has a car and is very willing to give rides to others in exchange for not having to walk into a party alone. I've never heard of a University where the freshman were magically diligent and contained, though I've never been to a private school (if that's the type of school you're talking about). I don't mean to imply anything, but is it possible that your child may have not explained all the intricacies of their experience, perhaps to save you the trouble of worrying and them the trouble of you worrying? I certainly did not tell my parents anywhere near what actually happened, and i still have never. As far as my mom knew, i was a model child in university and in the dorm.
    - SECProto 3y ago
      > Where did I say I thought that? It was in the comment you replied to, you only explicitly addressed the first part, but implicitly agreed with the latter as well: > how many 19-year-olds do you know who want to live in a dorm setting and show up on time?
- JoeAltmaier 3y ago
  Same at my young son's university. They looked out for each other, if somebody didn't show they'd check in back in the dorm, see if everything was all right. Probably different at a state school, where kids are marking time until the job market. This was a private school in a small town upstate. Kids had a sense of purpose.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    The university my kids went to was very much like this, but it's a state school. It is, however, run very much like a private school in that it can make its own decisions and it is allowed to charge a lot more in tuition.
- vkou 3y ago
  Which is insane to me. If a student wants to save money and live with their parents, or independently, that should be their prerogative.
  - alistairSH 3y ago
    That’s usually allowed. It’s non-local freshman who are sometimes required to live in university housing.
red-iron-pine 3y ago
and no one in the military enjoys that. plus we got drunk as hell all the time, even with clearances. even in iraq a couple of times. showing up to formation hammered and doing some sloppy PT was like a right of passage.
- jvanderbot 3y ago
  > showing up In a less rigorous setting like one implied by jobcorps, this would be much more voluntary. The peer culture in the military, combined with isolation and authoritarianism really does keep people in line, even if they screw up all the time along the way. Source: 5 military family members.
bb611 3y ago
Absolutely not "all", a massive amount of management (non-commission and commissioned officer) time is spent policing the behavior of 18-22 year olds, frequently including dealing with their criminal behavior both in and outside of the military. In 2021, the latest year DoD has reported, 2.6% of active duty military were kicked out of the military for either failing to do their jobs or criminal behavior.^1 In 2020, it was nearly 3.1%.^2 This is the small fraction of people who were even willing to volunteer for the military, and then completed a significantly more strenuous recruiting process than nearly any private sector job. Having a sucky life in return for learning job skills isn't worth it to most Americans of any age! Also note all branches are having trouble recruiting the last several years, to the tune of 25-30,000 recruits short this year. Again, most people do not want to do this! 1. https://download.militaryonesource.mil/12038/MOS/Reports/2021-demographics-report.pdf https://download.militaryonesource.mil/12038/MOS/Reports/202... pg 50 shows active duty separations by type, I refer to Military Requirement/Behavior/Performance and Legal Issues/Standards of Conduct. 2. https://download.militaryonesource.mil/12038/MOS/Reports/2020-demographics-report.pdf https://download.militaryonesource.mil/12038/MOS/Reports/202... Similar to above, pg 46
yamazakiwi 3y ago
None of us wanted to live in a dorm setting or enjoyed showing up on time. Most are in to get away from their native location or to get money for school/GI Bill, not because the idea of military is more appealing than being a civilian.

presidentender 3y ago

Is everyone suited for military service?

poopbutt7 3y ago
No, some people are not suited for military service.
mistrial9 3y ago
if everyone is expected to do it, then the character of the program changes.. I am guessing at that since many ordinary countries have mandatory government service. I doubt that everyone there is subjected to classical troops psychology training, which is not for everyone.

JohnFen 3y ago

And all freshman at the university my children went to, where all first-year students are required to live in the dorms.

NoNotTheDuo 3y ago
If you think that all of the freshman that lived in the dorms went to every class, much less showed up on time for every class, I've got some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you...
- JohnFen 3y ago
  Where did I say I thought that? Although most do, because of the supervision. The "party problem" doesn't really start until sophomore year. Unless you're in a frat or sorority. Those count as "dorms" for the requirement, and are notorious.
  - eitally 3y ago
    Are you talking about a specific school, because there is almost 0 supervision (I would call what dorm RAs do as more "emergency oversight") and freshman absolutely party the same as upperclassmen & women. Also, you should know that many colleges & universities apply far greater oversight to frats & sororities these days than genpop, and many are dry.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      Yes, I was specifically talking about the university my children went to, because it's the only one I know anything about. > because there is almost 0 supervision (I would call what dorm RAs do as more "emergency oversight") and freshman absolutely party the same as upperclassmen & women. I know that there are schools where this is true. But I also know there is at least one school where this is certainly not true.
      - wholinator2 3y ago
        I have to add that every school I've been to, or known anyone from has had a sort-of freshman integration process for partying where the kids are driven to the houses and supplied with alcohol and encouraged to party and have sex. _Especially_ the women, it's actually incomparable. They are instantly picked over by the upperclassmen and delivered and encouraged to party every weekend of every semester. Sure they live in a dorm but everyone has a car and is very willing to give rides to others in exchange for not having to walk into a party alone. I've never heard of a University where the freshman were magically diligent and contained, though I've never been to a private school (if that's the type of school you're talking about). I don't mean to imply anything, but is it possible that your child may have not explained all the intricacies of their experience, perhaps to save you the trouble of worrying and them the trouble of you worrying? I certainly did not tell my parents anywhere near what actually happened, and i still have never. As far as my mom knew, i was a model child in university and in the dorm.
  - SECProto 3y ago
    > Where did I say I thought that? It was in the comment you replied to, you only explicitly addressed the first part, but implicitly agreed with the latter as well: > how many 19-year-olds do you know who want to live in a dorm setting and show up on time?
JoeAltmaier 3y ago
Same at my young son's university. They looked out for each other, if somebody didn't show they'd check in back in the dorm, see if everything was all right. Probably different at a state school, where kids are marking time until the job market. This was a private school in a small town upstate. Kids had a sense of purpose.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  The university my kids went to was very much like this, but it's a state school. It is, however, run very much like a private school in that it can make its own decisions and it is allowed to charge a lot more in tuition.
vkou 3y ago
Which is insane to me. If a student wants to save money and live with their parents, or independently, that should be their prerogative.
- alistairSH 3y ago
  That’s usually allowed. It’s non-local freshman who are sometimes required to live in university housing.

red-iron-pine 3y ago

and no one in the military enjoys that. plus we got drunk as hell all the time, even with clearances. even in iraq a couple of times. showing up to formation hammered and doing some sloppy PT was like a right of passage.

jvanderbot 3y ago
> showing up In a less rigorous setting like one implied by jobcorps, this would be much more voluntary. The peer culture in the military, combined with isolation and authoritarianism really does keep people in line, even if they screw up all the time along the way. Source: 5 military family members.

bb611 3y ago

Absolutely not "all", a massive amount of management (non-commission and commissioned officer) time is spent policing the behavior of 18-22 year olds, frequently including dealing with their criminal behavior both in and outside of the military. In 2021, the latest year DoD has reported, 2.6% of active duty military were kicked out of the military for either failing to do their jobs or criminal behavior.^1 In 2020, it was nearly 3.1%.^2 This is the small fraction of people who were even willing to volunteer for the military, and then completed a significantly more strenuous recruiting process than nearly any private sector job. Having a sucky life in return for learning job skills isn't worth it to most Americans of any age! Also note all branches are having trouble recruiting the last several years, to the tune of 25-30,000 recruits short this year. Again, most people do not want to do this! 1. https://download.militaryonesource.mil/12038/MOS/Reports/2021-demographics-report.pdf https://download.militaryonesource.mil/12038/MOS/Reports/202... pg 50 shows active duty separations by type, I refer to Military Requirement/Behavior/Performance and Legal Issues/Standards of Conduct. 2. https://download.militaryonesource.mil/12038/MOS/Reports/2020-demographics-report.pdf https://download.militaryonesource.mil/12038/MOS/Reports/202... Similar to above, pg 46

yamazakiwi 3y ago

None of us wanted to live in a dorm setting or enjoyed showing up on time. Most are in to get away from their native location or to get money for school/GI Bill, not because the idea of military is more appealing than being a civilian.