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Talk of putting people on Mars is how they recruit young idealistic engineers. I think to understand what SpaceX is actually about you need to understand who

Talk of putting people on Mars is how they recruit young idealistic engineers. I think to understand what SpaceX is actually about you need to understand who Michael Griffin is and what he's all about. He went with Musk when he tried to buy an ICBM from Russia; he conceived of NASA's Commercial Resupply Services program and gave the contract to SpaceX, before SpaceX had ever put anything into orbit. Ditto the Commercial Orbital Transportation Services contract. It's not an exaggeration to say that SpaceX would not exist if not for Michael Griffin. Read about the rest of his career and I think you'll figure it out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Griffin#Career https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Griffin#Career

didibus 3y ago
> During this time, he met entrepreneur Elon Musk and accompanied him on a trip to Russia > In December 2008, with SpaceX again on the verge of bankruptcy, Griffin awarded SpaceX along with his own Orbital Sciences company each contracts with a combined value of $3.5 billion It's crazy how nepotism is still such an important aspect of success today. It's very likely had they never known each other, SpaceX would not exist today, and some other company would have thrived instead. I also don't understand how it's not a conflict of interest to award his own company that contract?
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  It's very likely that if Michael Griffin and Elon Musk had never met, Elon Musk would not be in the space business at all and Michael Griffin would have induced some other person to play the same role. Orbital Sciences and SpaceX both exist to make "proliferated" LEO constellations possible. He founded one and had his fingers all over the founding of the other. He's gone above and beyond to keep both these companies afloat. Considering the nature and role of the LEO constellation Michael Griffin wants to build, remember Elon Musk's talk about "preventing extinction". Ostensibly he's talking about making a 'backup' population of humanity on Mars, but that makes zero sense. Serious customers for Mars colonization don't actually exist and SpaceX hasn't invested in the development of Mars habitat technology themselves. What they're actually doing is developing boosters capable of launching proliferated LEO constellations for feasible amounts of money (a capability SpaceX is now demonstrating with Starlink.)
  - panick21_ 3y ago
    Ok mister smarty pants. How do you create a program for Mars colonialisation without first solving the problem of price to LEO launches. You act as if there was some short cut around that. There isnt. So your argument just fundamentally doesnt work. What would SpaceX invest in refueling if LEO is all they cared about?
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  >I also don't understand how it's not a conflict of interest to award his own company that contract? This kind of inside dealing is just the status quo in american businesses today. Every CEO is on the board of the companies where their board members are CEOs. Really easy to get your board to approve a comp increase when they know you will do the same for them. Big business is a social club and you ain't in it.
- panick21_ 3y ago
  The contracts were not given out because of SpaceX issues. This program was ungoing and progressing threw the steps. SpaceX and Orbital were the deserving companies to get the contracts. This is one of the most successful contract in history. Griffin didnt invente COTS, that was anouter group that had been wanting to do a program like that and Griffin was just the administrator. To you have actual evidence the Griffin as administrator actually overwrote the technical comities making these choices in order to help SpaceX. If you dont have that evidence then you are just full of shit talking out of your ass.
  - didibus 3y ago
    I'm just quoting the linked Wikipedia article. So if it's inaccurate, my bad. That's all I read of the man.
samr71 3y ago
This has elements of truth but is a conspiracy theory the way you describe it. If you listen to Musk, or listen to people who work for Musk, or the people who work for those people, they all say that the point of SpaceX is to enable human colonization of Mars. It's not just a marketing strategy to acquire talent (unless you think they're all lying -- hence the conspiracy aspect. Now, to do that, they'll need to scratch the government's back. Doesn't mean that Mars isn't priority #1.
- georgeg23 3y ago
  The only person that has to lie is Musk. That's why SpaceX is run as an autocracy. Everyone else drinks the Mars Kool aid. People who have been around a while connect the dots. To be more precise, the company is run by the DoD with significant technical and financial assistance. Elon is the main conduit between those deep resource and the rest of the company. He regularly meets with all teams to ensure they are aligned with "higher purposes". To be even more precise, Elon is a front-man for a right-wing multi-decade program in American hegemony and actualizing it's crowning achievement--the Strategic Defense Initiative.
  - xNeil 3y ago
    can the internet please decide whether SpaceX is an autocracy, or if (as several media outlets put it) Elons companies succeeded in spite of him as opposed to because of him. both of these cannot be true at the same time.
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      > can the internet please decide whether SpaceX is an autocracy, or if (as several media outlets put it) Elons companies succeeded in spite of him as opposed to because of him. No, the internet isn't a hive mind, and is never going to have simple unitary opinions except as rare coincidence. > both of these cannot be true at the same time. And yet a planet-scale information network can easily include voices that believe each of them simultaneously, because people disagree.
    - 3y ago
georgeg23 3y ago
Yep, Griffin even shared the plenary talks with Musk when he gave the famous Mars Society announcement about going to Mars, https://marspedia.org/images/9/99/2001_TMS_Conv_Sched.pdf https://marspedia.org/images/9/99/2001_TMS_Conv_Sched.pdf They were very close. Elon named his first born son Griffin. Mike Griffin is all about putting (eventually) hypersonic weapons in space and resurrecting Brilliant Pebbles. He was the early advocate for reusable launchers https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/may99/rockets11.htm https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/may99/r... and the Falcon name came from his DARPA Falcon Project.
- oblio 3y ago
  So, basically a Cold War warhawk.
robotresearcher 3y ago
Can you state what you mean, instead of the innuendo, please?
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  SDI, obviously. Did you click the link? My innuendo is thinner than rice paper, it's a joke to prod you into clicking that link. Michael Griffin's entire career revolves around kinetic interceptor based SDI, e.g. Brilliant Pebbles. The only way to build such a system is to develop rocket boosters that let you launch tens of thousands of satellites, which is what SpaceX has been working towards the entire time.

didibus 3y ago

> During this time, he met entrepreneur Elon Musk and accompanied him on a trip to Russia > In December 2008, with SpaceX again on the verge of bankruptcy, Griffin awarded SpaceX along with his own Orbital Sciences company each contracts with a combined value of $3.5 billion It's crazy how nepotism is still such an important aspect of success today. It's very likely had they never known each other, SpaceX would not exist today, and some other company would have thrived instead. I also don't understand how it's not a conflict of interest to award his own company that contract?

mcpackieh 3y ago
It's very likely that if Michael Griffin and Elon Musk had never met, Elon Musk would not be in the space business at all and Michael Griffin would have induced some other person to play the same role. Orbital Sciences and SpaceX both exist to make "proliferated" LEO constellations possible. He founded one and had his fingers all over the founding of the other. He's gone above and beyond to keep both these companies afloat. Considering the nature and role of the LEO constellation Michael Griffin wants to build, remember Elon Musk's talk about "preventing extinction". Ostensibly he's talking about making a 'backup' population of humanity on Mars, but that makes zero sense. Serious customers for Mars colonization don't actually exist and SpaceX hasn't invested in the development of Mars habitat technology themselves. What they're actually doing is developing boosters capable of launching proliferated LEO constellations for feasible amounts of money (a capability SpaceX is now demonstrating with Starlink.)
- panick21_ 3y ago
  Ok mister smarty pants. How do you create a program for Mars colonialisation without first solving the problem of price to LEO launches. You act as if there was some short cut around that. There isnt. So your argument just fundamentally doesnt work. What would SpaceX invest in refueling if LEO is all they cared about?
mrguyorama 3y ago
>I also don't understand how it's not a conflict of interest to award his own company that contract? This kind of inside dealing is just the status quo in american businesses today. Every CEO is on the board of the companies where their board members are CEOs. Really easy to get your board to approve a comp increase when they know you will do the same for them. Big business is a social club and you ain't in it.
panick21_ 3y ago
The contracts were not given out because of SpaceX issues. This program was ungoing and progressing threw the steps. SpaceX and Orbital were the deserving companies to get the contracts. This is one of the most successful contract in history. Griffin didnt invente COTS, that was anouter group that had been wanting to do a program like that and Griffin was just the administrator. To you have actual evidence the Griffin as administrator actually overwrote the technical comities making these choices in order to help SpaceX. If you dont have that evidence then you are just full of shit talking out of your ass.
- didibus 3y ago
  I'm just quoting the linked Wikipedia article. So if it's inaccurate, my bad. That's all I read of the man.

samr71 3y ago

This has elements of truth but is a conspiracy theory the way you describe it. If you listen to Musk, or listen to people who work for Musk, or the people who work for those people, they all say that the point of SpaceX is to enable human colonization of Mars. It's not just a marketing strategy to acquire talent (unless you think they're all lying -- hence the conspiracy aspect. Now, to do that, they'll need to scratch the government's back. Doesn't mean that Mars isn't priority #1.

georgeg23 3y ago
The only person that has to lie is Musk. That's why SpaceX is run as an autocracy. Everyone else drinks the Mars Kool aid. People who have been around a while connect the dots. To be more precise, the company is run by the DoD with significant technical and financial assistance. Elon is the main conduit between those deep resource and the rest of the company. He regularly meets with all teams to ensure they are aligned with "higher purposes". To be even more precise, Elon is a front-man for a right-wing multi-decade program in American hegemony and actualizing it's crowning achievement--the Strategic Defense Initiative.
- xNeil 3y ago
  can the internet please decide whether SpaceX is an autocracy, or if (as several media outlets put it) Elons companies succeeded in spite of him as opposed to because of him. both of these cannot be true at the same time.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > can the internet please decide whether SpaceX is an autocracy, or if (as several media outlets put it) Elons companies succeeded in spite of him as opposed to because of him. No, the internet isn't a hive mind, and is never going to have simple unitary opinions except as rare coincidence. > both of these cannot be true at the same time. And yet a planet-scale information network can easily include voices that believe each of them simultaneously, because people disagree.
  - 3y ago

georgeg23 3y ago

Yep, Griffin even shared the plenary talks with Musk when he gave the famous Mars Society announcement about going to Mars, https://marspedia.org/images/9/99/2001_TMS_Conv_Sched.pdf https://marspedia.org/images/9/99/2001_TMS_Conv_Sched.pdf They were very close. Elon named his first born son Griffin. Mike Griffin is all about putting (eventually) hypersonic weapons in space and resurrecting Brilliant Pebbles. He was the early advocate for reusable launchers https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/may99/rockets11.htm https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/may99/r... and the Falcon name came from his DARPA Falcon Project.

oblio 3y ago
So, basically a Cold War warhawk.

robotresearcher 3y ago

Can you state what you mean, instead of the innuendo, please?

mcpackieh 3y ago
SDI, obviously. Did you click the link? My innuendo is thinner than rice paper, it's a joke to prod you into clicking that link. Michael Griffin's entire career revolves around kinetic interceptor based SDI, e.g. Brilliant Pebbles. The only way to build such a system is to develop rocket boosters that let you launch tens of thousands of satellites, which is what SpaceX has been working towards the entire time.