4 ms·

How do people still use Windows? Windows 7 was great, but after that it felt like someone scraped together bloat, telemetry and spyware and called it "Windows"

How do people still use Windows? Windows 7 was great, but after that it felt like someone scraped together bloat, telemetry and spyware and called it "Windows".

jdthedisciple 3y ago
Just tells you how much the freedom to do anything you want (in a non-convulted way) is worth.
rqtwteye 3y ago
A lot of apps run only on Windows (and maybe Mac if you are lucky).
forrestthewoods 3y ago
I use Windows every day at home and work. It’s far from perfect. Linux, in my personal experience, requires faaaaaaar more debugging and tinkering and configuring. A full order of magnitude more time spent at least. This time is reduced if you’ve been using and configuring Linux boxes for 20 years. YMMV. Now if you want to configure every little thing maybe that’s a good thing. If you want your computer to work consistently and without tinkering it’s maybe a bad thing. And Windows + Visual Studio is still the best debugging experience for native code.
- 3836293648 3y ago
  I have never heard anyone say anything good about the Visual Studio debugger before. Now, I'm not a Windows person but I'm not gonna argue for gdb or lldb here. RemedyBG and x64dbg are the two debuggers I've heard good things about though I've never used them because, again, not a Windows person. [1] https://remedybg.handmade.network/ https://remedybg.handmade.network/ [2] https://x64dbg.com/ https://x64dbg.com/
- not_alexb 3y ago
  I've been using Linux for around 20 years, but I hate configuring things these days. It's possible to buy machines that require zero configuration on the user's part; most of my thinkpads over the past 5 or 7 years didn't need an iota of configuration
- unsignedint 3y ago
  From my perspective, Linux works wonderfully when everything runs smoothly, especially for desktop use. However, when issues arise, I often find myself delving into extensive documentation. I frequently encounter minor usability issues, which might be amplified for me since I use Japanese input, which has its quirks. Additionally, I've faced more significant problems with nearly every major upgrade. While Windows isn't without its flaws and has had its share of problematic updates, it generally feels more stable during routine updates compared to Linux. Linux does offer better recovery options when things go awry. In contrast, troubleshooting on Windows can be challenging. Nonetheless, I find the recent versions of Windows to be more user-friendly than Linux desktops. Plus, with the addition of WSL, I can run Linux applications — including those with a GUI — when needed.
quietbritishjim 3y ago
Given that Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 suffered from this exact problem, I doubt that Windows 7 was some Utopia where it briefly disappeared.
caiomassan 3y ago
games and poker.
- Narishma 3y ago
  Why poker?
  - Minor49er 3y ago
    Because he forgot the name Solitaire
RajT88 3y ago
I quite like Win10 actually. It was what got me to finally switch off 7. 11 I hated, until it fixed its weird breakages and compatibility issues. And of course after switching everything around to look and function just like 10. But Windows apps (let's be clear this is more an app problem than an OS problem) are filled with dumb shit like this. I have had many app performance issues where ProcMon shows a high number of IO operations against files, folders, registry, etc. Part of this is due to Windows Installer advertisement, which can inject this behavior into an application! https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/msi/platform-support-of-advertisement https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/msi/platform... (How does this happen? When an advertised entrypoint is invoked - shortcut, COM interface, file extension association, a few other things), there's 'Darwin Code' injected into the registry which causes an evaluation of *.msi packages installed which have that advertised entrypoint registered. It checks to see if any components are broken by checking the keypaths (keypaths could be files, folders, registry entries). If you have an application invoking COM Interfaces many times a second, it's going to inject a bunch of IO ops to each time check all the components installed. I've seen apps when repackaged from an *.exe install into an *.msi slow down to a crawl (until you rebuild them with self-registration instead of using the MSI advertised tables).
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  It's also because Windows after 8ish seem to just assume everyone has an SSD and small file ops are "fast enough" to not care about and sure just throw blocking IO into the hot loop nobody cares. NTFS isn't even fast on many small file IOPs but MS don't care, because all their machines have big SSDs and they fired their QA anyway. What are you going to do, install linux? Then you get to enjoy your package manager deleting your windowing environment when you try to install Steam because of some stupid overlooked thing. You can't even click a single button to roll back your install to a previous known good condition, like Windows has had since like 2000.
  - RajT88 3y ago
    > It's also because Windows after 8ish seem to just assume everyone has an SSD and small file ops are "fast enough" to not care about and sure just throw blocking IO into the hot loop nobody cares. I haven't had this issue, strangely. These days all my OS's are on SSD's though. But that was not the case when I first moved over to Win10 for my gaming PC and work both. The shenanigans with windows updates though... I am convinced that there's something in the OS to intentionally cause strange behavior when updates are pending as a way of incentivizing you to reboot. This didn't used to happen. I haven't yet made the time to properly study it, because it's always at a moment where I have more important things to do.
vb6sp6 3y ago
[dead]
npteljes 3y ago
Well, I just use it and that's it. I need it for my multiplayer games for their anti-cheat. I also make compromises in other areas of life.
partiallypro 3y ago
For starters, this has nothing to do with Windows. Windows 10 and 11 are both objectively better than 7. Even Mac people clamor for certain older versions of MacOS, but if they were actually forced to go back would immediately balk.
SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
An operating system is a means to run useful programs. It's not a goal.

How do people still use Windows? Windows 7 was great, but after that it felt like someone scraped together bloat, telemetry and spyware and called it "Windows".

jdthedisciple 3y ago

Just tells you how much the freedom to do anything you want (in a non-convulted way) is worth.

rqtwteye 3y ago

A lot of apps run only on Windows (and maybe Mac if you are lucky).

forrestthewoods 3y ago

I use Windows every day at home and work. It’s far from perfect. Linux, in my personal experience, requires faaaaaaar more debugging and tinkering and configuring. A full order of magnitude more time spent at least. This time is reduced if you’ve been using and configuring Linux boxes for 20 years. YMMV. Now if you want to configure every little thing maybe that’s a good thing. If you want your computer to work consistently and without tinkering it’s maybe a bad thing. And Windows + Visual Studio is still the best debugging experience for native code.

3836293648 3y ago
I have never heard anyone say anything good about the Visual Studio debugger before. Now, I'm not a Windows person but I'm not gonna argue for gdb or lldb here. RemedyBG and x64dbg are the two debuggers I've heard good things about though I've never used them because, again, not a Windows person. [1] https://remedybg.handmade.network/ https://remedybg.handmade.network/ [2] https://x64dbg.com/ https://x64dbg.com/
not_alexb 3y ago
I've been using Linux for around 20 years, but I hate configuring things these days. It's possible to buy machines that require zero configuration on the user's part; most of my thinkpads over the past 5 or 7 years didn't need an iota of configuration
unsignedint 3y ago
From my perspective, Linux works wonderfully when everything runs smoothly, especially for desktop use. However, when issues arise, I often find myself delving into extensive documentation. I frequently encounter minor usability issues, which might be amplified for me since I use Japanese input, which has its quirks. Additionally, I've faced more significant problems with nearly every major upgrade. While Windows isn't without its flaws and has had its share of problematic updates, it generally feels more stable during routine updates compared to Linux. Linux does offer better recovery options when things go awry. In contrast, troubleshooting on Windows can be challenging. Nonetheless, I find the recent versions of Windows to be more user-friendly than Linux desktops. Plus, with the addition of WSL, I can run Linux applications — including those with a GUI — when needed.

quietbritishjim 3y ago

Given that Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 suffered from this exact problem, I doubt that Windows 7 was some Utopia where it briefly disappeared.

caiomassan 3y ago

games and poker.

Narishma 3y ago
Why poker?
- Minor49er 3y ago
  Because he forgot the name Solitaire

RajT88 3y ago

I quite like Win10 actually. It was what got me to finally switch off 7. 11 I hated, until it fixed its weird breakages and compatibility issues. And of course after switching everything around to look and function just like 10. But Windows apps (let's be clear this is more an app problem than an OS problem) are filled with dumb shit like this. I have had many app performance issues where ProcMon shows a high number of IO operations against files, folders, registry, etc. Part of this is due to Windows Installer advertisement, which can inject this behavior into an application! https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/msi/platform-support-of-advertisement https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/msi/platform... (How does this happen? When an advertised entrypoint is invoked - shortcut, COM interface, file extension association, a few other things), there's 'Darwin Code' injected into the registry which causes an evaluation of *.msi packages installed which have that advertised entrypoint registered. It checks to see if any components are broken by checking the keypaths (keypaths could be files, folders, registry entries). If you have an application invoking COM Interfaces many times a second, it's going to inject a bunch of IO ops to each time check all the components installed. I've seen apps when repackaged from an *.exe install into an *.msi slow down to a crawl (until you rebuild them with self-registration instead of using the MSI advertised tables).

mrguyorama 3y ago
It's also because Windows after 8ish seem to just assume everyone has an SSD and small file ops are "fast enough" to not care about and sure just throw blocking IO into the hot loop nobody cares. NTFS isn't even fast on many small file IOPs but MS don't care, because all their machines have big SSDs and they fired their QA anyway. What are you going to do, install linux? Then you get to enjoy your package manager deleting your windowing environment when you try to install Steam because of some stupid overlooked thing. You can't even click a single button to roll back your install to a previous known good condition, like Windows has had since like 2000.
- RajT88 3y ago
  > It's also because Windows after 8ish seem to just assume everyone has an SSD and small file ops are "fast enough" to not care about and sure just throw blocking IO into the hot loop nobody cares. I haven't had this issue, strangely. These days all my OS's are on SSD's though. But that was not the case when I first moved over to Win10 for my gaming PC and work both. The shenanigans with windows updates though... I am convinced that there's something in the OS to intentionally cause strange behavior when updates are pending as a way of incentivizing you to reboot. This didn't used to happen. I haven't yet made the time to properly study it, because it's always at a moment where I have more important things to do.

vb6sp6 3y ago

[dead]

npteljes 3y ago

Well, I just use it and that's it. I need it for my multiplayer games for their anti-cheat. I also make compromises in other areas of life.

partiallypro 3y ago

For starters, this has nothing to do with Windows. Windows 10 and 11 are both objectively better than 7. Even Mac people clamor for certain older versions of MacOS, but if they were actually forced to go back would immediately balk.

SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago

An operating system is a means to run useful programs. It's not a goal.