4 ms·

The most remarkable thing about your comment is that if US does a single thing you suggested we loose what we are about and what separates us from countries lik

The most remarkable thing about your comment is that if US does a single thing you suggested we loose what we are about and what separates us from countries like China…

mrguyorama 3y ago
If you think the US has ever been serious about free trade then you need a history lesson.
- bdangubic 3y ago
  Not sure I understand what does "free trade" have to do with anything here? I was commenting on: 1. "We should insist that TikTok display the same content it is legally mandated to in China." I and hopefully 99.999% Americans do not want to live in a country that 'legally mandates' what content is available for consumption 2. "Also we should insist that quid-pro-quo policies be implemented - if China wants to ban our tech companies and control anything and everything on their shores, we need to treat them the same way they treat us." Again - WUT?! Not even going to elaborate on this silliness... 3. "China does this shit all the time." Happy to NOT do what China does :) etc etc...
paulmd 3y ago
Well, yes. Open societies are vulnerable in a way that authoritarian ones are not. Absolute free speech is a weakness, adversaries will take advantage of the openness of your mind and the leverage that fake news will provide them. And that’s even with some of the most disagreeable speech (active threats etc) still banned. Like we’re not even absolute free speech and it still sucks just how easy it is to ride the line with vague threats, knowing mistruths (Fox News etc), and other “valid” speech. It’s better to take stricter approaches like Germany etc and have the lines drawn a bit broader and have nazis banned entirely etc. The “discourse banishes bad ideas” thing is a wishful fairy tale. Adversarial actors will parasitize your openness and use it to spread their message, and rebutting it only spreads the “debate” and gives it legitimacy. It’s better to stamp that shit out and force it out of mainstream channels and into separate “racist services” like gab, truth social, voat, etc. It is what divides us from china but it’s also what’s tearing down our political system from the inside, because propaganda still works regardless of what you think about it. It’s marketing for ideology, nobody thinks marketing works either but companies aren’t spending billions of dollars for nothing. And the open western dialogue and interchange of information makes the propaganda more effective and propagate quicker. An open mind is like a fortress with its gates undefended. There are some things you shouldn’t be open to even rebutting because they are simply so far out of the window of acceptability. We don’t debate people’s right to exist, for example.
- bdangubic 3y ago
  > It’s better to take stricter approaches like Germany etc and have the lines drawn a bit broader and have nazis banned entirely etc. Time will pass and then another group of people will be the ones deciding "where the lines will be drawn" and those lines will be forbidding books to children, women education etc etc... This line of thinking is fine if people drawing the lines are sane... But we all know how that always turns out

The most remarkable thing about your comment is that if US does a single thing you suggested we loose what we are about and what separates us from countries like China…

mrguyorama 3y ago

If you think the US has ever been serious about free trade then you need a history lesson.

bdangubic 3y ago
Not sure I understand what does "free trade" have to do with anything here? I was commenting on: 1. "We should insist that TikTok display the same content it is legally mandated to in China." I and hopefully 99.999% Americans do not want to live in a country that 'legally mandates' what content is available for consumption 2. "Also we should insist that quid-pro-quo policies be implemented - if China wants to ban our tech companies and control anything and everything on their shores, we need to treat them the same way they treat us." Again - WUT?! Not even going to elaborate on this silliness... 3. "China does this shit all the time." Happy to NOT do what China does :) etc etc...

paulmd 3y ago

Well, yes. Open societies are vulnerable in a way that authoritarian ones are not. Absolute free speech is a weakness, adversaries will take advantage of the openness of your mind and the leverage that fake news will provide them. And that’s even with some of the most disagreeable speech (active threats etc) still banned. Like we’re not even absolute free speech and it still sucks just how easy it is to ride the line with vague threats, knowing mistruths (Fox News etc), and other “valid” speech. It’s better to take stricter approaches like Germany etc and have the lines drawn a bit broader and have nazis banned entirely etc. The “discourse banishes bad ideas” thing is a wishful fairy tale. Adversarial actors will parasitize your openness and use it to spread their message, and rebutting it only spreads the “debate” and gives it legitimacy. It’s better to stamp that shit out and force it out of mainstream channels and into separate “racist services” like gab, truth social, voat, etc. It is what divides us from china but it’s also what’s tearing down our political system from the inside, because propaganda still works regardless of what you think about it. It’s marketing for ideology, nobody thinks marketing works either but companies aren’t spending billions of dollars for nothing. And the open western dialogue and interchange of information makes the propaganda more effective and propagate quicker. An open mind is like a fortress with its gates undefended. There are some things you shouldn’t be open to even rebutting because they are simply so far out of the window of acceptability. We don’t debate people’s right to exist, for example.

bdangubic 3y ago
> It’s better to take stricter approaches like Germany etc and have the lines drawn a bit broader and have nazis banned entirely etc. Time will pass and then another group of people will be the ones deciding "where the lines will be drawn" and those lines will be forbidding books to children, women education etc etc... This line of thinking is fine if people drawing the lines are sane... But we all know how that always turns out