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I suspect this view is held by American adults who aren't from a young enough generation to use TikTok. While Facebook and Instagram might be 'evil', they're co

I suspect this view is held by American adults who aren't from a young enough generation to use TikTok. While Facebook and Instagram might be 'evil', they're considered 'our American evil'. This smacks of jingoism and ageism. It's simpler to ban what you don't personally use.

karaterobot 3y ago
Given users of these sorts of apps have been demonstrated to have an addiction to them in many cases, are users of TikTok more or less reliable judges?
- babypuncher 3y ago
  If this is our metric then we should ban Facebook and Instagram as well. But we won't, because they're American, and that is the only important distinction to those calling for a ban on TikTok.
  - karaterobot 3y ago
    No, you're comparing apples and oranges. In the poll, the reason they support banning TikTok is due to security concerns about China. The person I responded to was implying that the respondents' opinions are irrelevant because they do not (he assumes) use the platform themselves, and my point is that using the platform does not make your opinion on this issue more or less valid. Nobody is using addiction as a metric for banning anything in this case.
    - pseudosavant 3y ago
      "Security concerns about China..." as more than half of the products you buy are from China. Your phone, router, bluetooth earbuds, chips in your car, the smart assistance that has an always on microphone, your smart TV that observes everything you watch and listens with a mic... But this free app that some people use definitely needs to be banned because "China". Selective jingoism.
brucethemoose2 3y ago
I wonder if they would support a ban of Temu, with its older demographic than TikTok. I get its apples to oranges, as Temu doesn't really "influence" one's views like TikTok does, but still.
- abfan1127 3y ago
  why Temu?
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  That's the garbage wish.com knockoff right? I 100% support banning something which is an utter ecological disaster.
flappyeagle 3y ago
Sometimes a measure of jingoism is a good thing and sometimes kids are complete idiots.
- pseudosavant 3y ago
  jingoism (noun): extreme patriotism, especially in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy. (Google/Oxord) https://www.google.com/search?q=define+jingoism https://www.google.com/search?q=define+jingoism "Sometimes kids are complete idiots"... so definitely ban their social network but keep yours full of phony influencers and extreme politics - because the adults are never complete idiots...
  - flappyeagle 3y ago
    It’s not “their” social network. It’s the CCP’s. They have never lacked for a social network. They will simply migrate to YouTube, Instagram, whatever. They will not hurt one bit for expressive capability. No one is being censored. This is like banning a specific blend of woodpulp for making paper. There are other papers.
Wowfunhappy 3y ago
> While Facebook and Instagram might be 'evil', they're considered 'our American evil'. Yes, the business operations of Facebook and Instagram are fundamentally accountable to American lawmakers, and thus voters, in a way TikTok is not. That accountability is imperfect, indirect, and weaker than it should be, but it is a different situation than TikTok. Despite a lot of hullaballoo, I think it would be exceedingly difficult for any one person to purposefully (!) tweak the Facebook algorithm to benefit a preferred political viewpoint. Someone—an engineer, a shareholder, etc—would notice and blow the whistle. By contrast, there is no doubt in my mind that the CCP can make ByteDance e.g. downrank messages in support of Hong Kong. ByteDance is a private company in an authoritarian nation whose government explicitly has this legal power! I don't think it's jingoism to believe the CCP should not have control over a major American media platform.
- pphysch 3y ago
  This is false. In "the Twitter Files" we learned that American social media companies actually manipulate public opinion on sensitive political topics (censoring content based on hypothetical "Russian involvement"). And they haven't been held to account. Meanwhile, there is no actual evidence of TikTok doing this in the West. I'm sure Chinese Douyin complies with government censorship for their domestic product, but there is no evidence that the American-managed product has done this. If it is happening and we just haven't found the evidence, the effect isn't there: Americans hate China more than ever. I understand you wish to believe the opposite, because it would make us feel fuzzy inside about how great America is and evil the chicoms are, but there simply isn't evidence to support your comment.
  - colpabar 3y ago
    It is honestly mind blowing that americans still believe that big social media companies and our glorious three letter agencies aren’t in cahoots, and that we only ever influence other countries. Also prepare to be flagged
    - mindslight 3y ago
mcpackieh 3y ago
TikTok has no age gate. If adults "aren't young enough" to use TikTok it's because TikTok's content is irredeemable low quality trash and the average adult isn't as stupid as the average teen. Youtube doesn't seem to have this problem. Adults, even elderly people, can find content they like on youtube; youtube has both vapid trash and long form thoughtful content. TikTok's content is just awful cringe to a unique degree.
- guntars 3y ago
  This reminds me of the last time this came up in some committee and senior politicians were complaining how the app is just full of dancing teenage boys. It’s not. As a longtime user of both, I’d say the content is comparable, except on TikTok you can’t drag out a video to 10 minutes to make a bit more money. Also, all ads are skippable.
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    A good video isn't drawn out to 10 minutes. Youtube has videos that are an hour+ because that's how much time the content demands. MIT's OpenCourseWare hosts lecture videos on youtube. What does TikTok have that compares? Nothing.
    - guntars 3y ago
      I know, I’m just saying that the platforms encourage different types of content and for YouTube it’s drawing out what could be a 3 minute video into 10 minutes because it’s better for the creator and the platform. TikTok doesn’t have long form content, but what it does have is someone saying “hey, check out this YouTube lecture, this is why you should watch it” which has helped me find interesting things on YouTube that I would have never clicked on.

karaterobot 3y ago

Given users of these sorts of apps have been demonstrated to have an addiction to them in many cases, are users of TikTok more or less reliable judges?

babypuncher 3y ago
If this is our metric then we should ban Facebook and Instagram as well. But we won't, because they're American, and that is the only important distinction to those calling for a ban on TikTok.
- karaterobot 3y ago
  No, you're comparing apples and oranges. In the poll, the reason they support banning TikTok is due to security concerns about China. The person I responded to was implying that the respondents' opinions are irrelevant because they do not (he assumes) use the platform themselves, and my point is that using the platform does not make your opinion on this issue more or less valid. Nobody is using addiction as a metric for banning anything in this case.
  - pseudosavant 3y ago
    "Security concerns about China..." as more than half of the products you buy are from China. Your phone, router, bluetooth earbuds, chips in your car, the smart assistance that has an always on microphone, your smart TV that observes everything you watch and listens with a mic... But this free app that some people use definitely needs to be banned because "China". Selective jingoism.

brucethemoose2 3y ago

I wonder if they would support a ban of Temu, with its older demographic than TikTok. I get its apples to oranges, as Temu doesn't really "influence" one's views like TikTok does, but still.

abfan1127 3y ago
why Temu?
mrguyorama 3y ago
That's the garbage wish.com knockoff right? I 100% support banning something which is an utter ecological disaster.

flappyeagle 3y ago

Sometimes a measure of jingoism is a good thing and sometimes kids are complete idiots.

pseudosavant 3y ago
jingoism (noun): extreme patriotism, especially in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy. (Google/Oxord) https://www.google.com/search?q=define+jingoism https://www.google.com/search?q=define+jingoism "Sometimes kids are complete idiots"... so definitely ban their social network but keep yours full of phony influencers and extreme politics - because the adults are never complete idiots...
- flappyeagle 3y ago
  It’s not “their” social network. It’s the CCP’s. They have never lacked for a social network. They will simply migrate to YouTube, Instagram, whatever. They will not hurt one bit for expressive capability. No one is being censored. This is like banning a specific blend of woodpulp for making paper. There are other papers.

Wowfunhappy 3y ago

> While Facebook and Instagram might be 'evil', they're considered 'our American evil'. Yes, the business operations of Facebook and Instagram are fundamentally accountable to American lawmakers, and thus voters, in a way TikTok is not. That accountability is imperfect, indirect, and weaker than it should be, but it is a different situation than TikTok. Despite a lot of hullaballoo, I think it would be exceedingly difficult for any one person to purposefully (!) tweak the Facebook algorithm to benefit a preferred political viewpoint. Someone—an engineer, a shareholder, etc—would notice and blow the whistle. By contrast, there is no doubt in my mind that the CCP can make ByteDance e.g. downrank messages in support of Hong Kong. ByteDance is a private company in an authoritarian nation whose government explicitly has this legal power! I don't think it's jingoism to believe the CCP should not have control over a major American media platform.

pphysch 3y ago
This is false. In "the Twitter Files" we learned that American social media companies actually manipulate public opinion on sensitive political topics (censoring content based on hypothetical "Russian involvement"). And they haven't been held to account. Meanwhile, there is no actual evidence of TikTok doing this in the West. I'm sure Chinese Douyin complies with government censorship for their domestic product, but there is no evidence that the American-managed product has done this. If it is happening and we just haven't found the evidence, the effect isn't there: Americans hate China more than ever. I understand you wish to believe the opposite, because it would make us feel fuzzy inside about how great America is and evil the chicoms are, but there simply isn't evidence to support your comment.
- colpabar 3y ago
  It is honestly mind blowing that americans still believe that big social media companies and our glorious three letter agencies aren’t in cahoots, and that we only ever influence other countries. Also prepare to be flagged
  - mindslight 3y ago

mcpackieh 3y ago

TikTok has no age gate. If adults "aren't young enough" to use TikTok it's because TikTok's content is irredeemable low quality trash and the average adult isn't as stupid as the average teen. Youtube doesn't seem to have this problem. Adults, even elderly people, can find content they like on youtube; youtube has both vapid trash and long form thoughtful content. TikTok's content is just awful cringe to a unique degree.

guntars 3y ago
This reminds me of the last time this came up in some committee and senior politicians were complaining how the app is just full of dancing teenage boys. It’s not. As a longtime user of both, I’d say the content is comparable, except on TikTok you can’t drag out a video to 10 minutes to make a bit more money. Also, all ads are skippable.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  A good video isn't drawn out to 10 minutes. Youtube has videos that are an hour+ because that's how much time the content demands. MIT's OpenCourseWare hosts lecture videos on youtube. What does TikTok have that compares? Nothing.
  - guntars 3y ago
    I know, I’m just saying that the platforms encourage different types of content and for YouTube it’s drawing out what could be a 3 minute video into 10 minutes because it’s better for the creator and the platform. TikTok doesn’t have long form content, but what it does have is someone saying “hey, check out this YouTube lecture, this is why you should watch it” which has helped me find interesting things on YouTube that I would have never clicked on.