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Not really, increasing energy efficiency is at the heart of many climate solutions. Clean energy is still scarce, and in the places where it isn't, for instance

by mrpopo 3y ago

Not really, increasing energy efficiency is at the heart of many climate solutions. Clean energy is still scarce, and in the places where it isn't, for instance Germany, there is backlash against it. Not to mention that they aren't even close to being 100% renewable-powered (wind+solar 30%), not even close to have 100% EV market penetration (about 2%), not even close to have the theoretical capacity for a grid to power 100% EVs, and you would like to adopt a less efficient technology that would require to double the clean power needs compared to EVs...

mustafa_pasi 3y ago
Manufacturing a whole new vehicle with a huge ass battery that is more cost intensive to manufacturing than a comparable ICE, a vehicle that due to contemporary trends has to be a 5-ton lifted SUV, a vehicle that is going to be used by ONE person to commute to work along a fixed predetermined route, a vehicle that is going to be replaced after 3 years because this person have to have the newest four wheels on the lot to project status to attract a status obsessed mate, all that is ALSO EXTREMELY energy inefficient. If you truly cared about energy efficiency you'd proposition the ban or severe limitation of private car usage in sufficiency dense localities. Public trams and busses, cycling, walking, and maybe even very small private vehicles would be extremely more energy efficient. There is nothing about a 5-ton EV SUV that says energy efficiency.
- _aavaa_ 3y ago
  That's a criticism of trends in automobiles (which I agree with) not something inherent to BEVs. Guess what, if you get a BEV with 1/3-1/4 the battery size, the range is smaller, but for most people it will be fine. And now your vehicle is not lugging around all that excess weight. And do you really need a massive electric pickup truck? It's absolutely possible, but I bet for most people it's a preference.
- mrpopo 3y ago
  Obviously reducing private car usage is a priority. I don't have a car, never owned one, and I'm absolutely in favour of severe restrictions. Now, you have to acknowledge the world we live in, a total ban won't be feasible in the time-frame that we have to combat climate change. (And neither will an electric grid sufficiently powerful to power millions of green hydrogen-powered vehicles or 5-ton SUVs for that matter). Not all EVs weigh 5 tons. Promoting (smaller) EVs for people who need them is a good thing.
angiosperm 3y ago
Efficiency matters little given a natural surplus, as will be the case when most of power comes from massively over-provisioned solar, similarly as is seen with hydro power in certain very wet places. Utility-scale users of solar will naturally install electrolysers for the additional revenue stream, using generation in excess of immediate need after local storage is charged up. They will favor the cheapest equipment, disregarding efficiency, because of their intermittent utilization. Nobody will be able to compete with them, because the power they use will be wholly free (i.e. "zero marginal cost"). The market for electrolysed H2, and NH3 produced from it, will be unlimited. Solar farms not producing H2 will find themselves undercut by those that are. Long-term energy storage will not be a thing, because any need beyond a few days will be satisfied by shipments of LNH3 from tropical producers. It will take time for all this to settle out. Expect to see a lot of short-term adaptations.

by mrpopo 3y ago

mustafa_pasi 3y ago

Manufacturing a whole new vehicle with a huge ass battery that is more cost intensive to manufacturing than a comparable ICE, a vehicle that due to contemporary trends has to be a 5-ton lifted SUV, a vehicle that is going to be used by ONE person to commute to work along a fixed predetermined route, a vehicle that is going to be replaced after 3 years because this person have to have the newest four wheels on the lot to project status to attract a status obsessed mate, all that is ALSO EXTREMELY energy inefficient. If you truly cared about energy efficiency you'd proposition the ban or severe limitation of private car usage in sufficiency dense localities. Public trams and busses, cycling, walking, and maybe even very small private vehicles would be extremely more energy efficient. There is nothing about a 5-ton EV SUV that says energy efficiency.

_aavaa_ 3y ago
That's a criticism of trends in automobiles (which I agree with) not something inherent to BEVs. Guess what, if you get a BEV with 1/3-1/4 the battery size, the range is smaller, but for most people it will be fine. And now your vehicle is not lugging around all that excess weight. And do you really need a massive electric pickup truck? It's absolutely possible, but I bet for most people it's a preference.
mrpopo 3y ago
Obviously reducing private car usage is a priority. I don't have a car, never owned one, and I'm absolutely in favour of severe restrictions. Now, you have to acknowledge the world we live in, a total ban won't be feasible in the time-frame that we have to combat climate change. (And neither will an electric grid sufficiently powerful to power millions of green hydrogen-powered vehicles or 5-ton SUVs for that matter). Not all EVs weigh 5 tons. Promoting (smaller) EVs for people who need them is a good thing.

angiosperm 3y ago

Efficiency matters little given a natural surplus, as will be the case when most of power comes from massively over-provisioned solar, similarly as is seen with hydro power in certain very wet places. Utility-scale users of solar will naturally install electrolysers for the additional revenue stream, using generation in excess of immediate need after local storage is charged up. They will favor the cheapest equipment, disregarding efficiency, because of their intermittent utilization. Nobody will be able to compete with them, because the power they use will be wholly free (i.e. "zero marginal cost"). The market for electrolysed H2, and NH3 produced from it, will be unlimited. Solar farms not producing H2 will find themselves undercut by those that are. Long-term energy storage will not be a thing, because any need beyond a few days will be satisfied by shipments of LNH3 from tropical producers. It will take time for all this to settle out. Expect to see a lot of short-term adaptations.