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Who’s verifying it though? 3d rendering won’t fool humans but could be tuned to fool bots. Unless you have a massive library of possible actions these can be pr

Who’s verifying it though? 3d rendering won’t fool humans but could be tuned to fool bots. Unless you have a massive library of possible actions these can be pre-rendered too.

sarchertech 3y ago
The OP you responded to said "I have a feeling other humans verifying you mechanicalturk style one time is the future." I don't know if that's feasible, but that's the premise. >Unless you have a massive library of possible actions these can be pre-rendered too. Combinatorial explosion gives you a massive amount of actions. Hold your right ring finger between your left thumb and pinky and move it around in a circle. There's tools that you could use to limit what you had to prerender and it would be a cat and mouse game like captcha is today, but I think until we're at the point where you can completely replace an actor, and then you can do that in real time, picking out a real human will be possible.
- mattnewton 3y ago
  I’d take the other side of that bet if it was stipulated that the 1 year start after this became a common captcha technique. People are working on generating animation on a rig from text prompts: https://www.motorica.ai/ https://www.motorica.ai/ It would be easier if we knew the prompts ahead of time and then we just render transitions. Real time-ness and a good deal of rendering fidelity can be mitigated by pretending to have crappy network connection once the prompt is given, unless you are comfortable excluding people without reliable internet. I think the bigger issue is probably with the premise though. This kind of video rendering is much more taxing but it’s also much more taxing on the verification side. I can’t imagine a company being able to do this at scale the way captchas are to defend against bots, you’d need an automated system on the frontline.
  - sarchertech 3y ago
    Most of the work going on with rendering people speaking isn't to defeat captchas, so you can't use the speed of that work to judge how fast people will be able to work to defeat a captcha. Also if it were in use people would frequently change the kind of actions they are asking for. >Real time-ness and a good deal of rendering fidelity can be mitigated by pretending to have crappy network connection once the prompt is given, Real timeless and rendering fidelity are the only part about this that isn't solved, so there's no real debate to have if those constraints aren't there. >unless you are comfortable excluding people without reliable internet. If this was a real thing, I will absolutely bet that companies would exclude people with unreliable internet once I becomes known that all scammers are pretending to have unreliable connections. "Please find a more reliable connection, or stop by the nearest Identity Check facility to authenticate yourself." >I think the bigger issue is probably with the premise though. I don't think this is likely to happen either. I think the most likely solution is trusted third party in person verification. Where I could see something like this working is if the third party verification service offered a 1 time remote verification process that functioned something like this.
    - _8j50 3y ago
      In my prediction, the trusted third party is doing a one time remote video verification instead of in person.

Who’s verifying it though? 3d rendering won’t fool humans but could be tuned to fool bots. Unless you have a massive library of possible actions these can be pre-rendered too.

sarchertech 3y ago

The OP you responded to said "I have a feeling other humans verifying you mechanicalturk style one time is the future." I don't know if that's feasible, but that's the premise. >Unless you have a massive library of possible actions these can be pre-rendered too. Combinatorial explosion gives you a massive amount of actions. Hold your right ring finger between your left thumb and pinky and move it around in a circle. There's tools that you could use to limit what you had to prerender and it would be a cat and mouse game like captcha is today, but I think until we're at the point where you can completely replace an actor, and then you can do that in real time, picking out a real human will be possible.

mattnewton 3y ago
I’d take the other side of that bet if it was stipulated that the 1 year start after this became a common captcha technique. People are working on generating animation on a rig from text prompts: https://www.motorica.ai/ https://www.motorica.ai/ It would be easier if we knew the prompts ahead of time and then we just render transitions. Real time-ness and a good deal of rendering fidelity can be mitigated by pretending to have crappy network connection once the prompt is given, unless you are comfortable excluding people without reliable internet. I think the bigger issue is probably with the premise though. This kind of video rendering is much more taxing but it’s also much more taxing on the verification side. I can’t imagine a company being able to do this at scale the way captchas are to defend against bots, you’d need an automated system on the frontline.
- sarchertech 3y ago
  Most of the work going on with rendering people speaking isn't to defeat captchas, so you can't use the speed of that work to judge how fast people will be able to work to defeat a captcha. Also if it were in use people would frequently change the kind of actions they are asking for. >Real time-ness and a good deal of rendering fidelity can be mitigated by pretending to have crappy network connection once the prompt is given, Real timeless and rendering fidelity are the only part about this that isn't solved, so there's no real debate to have if those constraints aren't there. >unless you are comfortable excluding people without reliable internet. If this was a real thing, I will absolutely bet that companies would exclude people with unreliable internet once I becomes known that all scammers are pretending to have unreliable connections. "Please find a more reliable connection, or stop by the nearest Identity Check facility to authenticate yourself." >I think the bigger issue is probably with the premise though. I don't think this is likely to happen either. I think the most likely solution is trusted third party in person verification. Where I could see something like this working is if the third party verification service offered a 1 time remote verification process that functioned something like this.
  - _8j50 3y ago
    In my prediction, the trusted third party is doing a one time remote video verification instead of in person.